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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-31-2015 , 01:31 PM
I don't think there is anything definitive that can be said aside from the fact that there was "reasonable doubt" throughout.
12-31-2015 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
"Based on what we saw".
So when Dean Strang explicitly says in the interview that he doesn't feel like the documentary was tainted and all the relevant evidence for both parties was presented, you don't believe him?

But when he says he doesn't know whether SA is guilty or not, you're like "see, even his lawyer has doubts!"

Gotta be a little more consistent...
12-31-2015 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
According to the criminal complaint, Brendan's mom told the investigators she noticed bleach on his jeans the night of the murder and he told her he was helping Steven clean the garage.

Brendan gave the investigators these jeans, and they had bleach on them.

Jodi also supposedly testified that Steven told her he was cleaning the garage in one of his calls with her that night.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._about_bleach/
12-31-2015 , 03:02 PM
This exchange cracked me up:

Steven isn't just a criminal mastermind; he's a wizard.

or Steve was framed by a vampire who drank all of the blood. It is probably a better theory than the one presented by the prosecution.

or aliens absconded with all the real evidence, cause you know... aliens.
12-31-2015 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisGunBGud Making a Murderer
Bleach? Did they find things have been cleaned with bleach? They have tests for that. I apologize if I missed that piece of information but it seems like you continually throw opinions of yours into this discussion and try to pass them off as facts.
This has been discussed at length on Reddit.....there is no evidence to suggest that bleach was used to clean the garage, the trailer, or the car. So to answer your question; No, nothing we know suggests a cleanup with bleach.

In fact SA had sodium hypochlorite bleach at his house (also consistent with bleach that would stain clothes) which doesn't destroy hemoglobin....so if he and Brendan had used the bleach to try and clean up blood luminol testing would still made the crime scene light up like a Christmas tree.

eta: I see the thread has been linked already
12-31-2015 , 05:17 PM
Evidence for Steve Avery's Guilt
Avery property was victim's last known whereabouts
Victim's remains found on property
Victim's car on the property
Bonfire the night of her disappearance coincides with location and method of disposal of victim's remains


Questionable/Ambiguous Evidence
Victim's car key found on property but under questionable circumstances with questionable forensics
Bullet fragment found in garage under questionable circumstances with questionable forensics
Dassey's implicating but potentially false confession
Victim's car contains SA's blood that questionably but likely was not planted
Victim's car contains her own blood likely from her body being placed in the cargo area


Evidence for Steve Avery's Innocence
Strong motive for him to be framed
Manitowoc County Sheriff's Dept extensive and inappropriate involvement in the investigation
Total lack of forensic evidence inside home/garage


IMO If we throw out all the questionable/ambiguous evidence, it's not beyond a reasonable doubt but certainly likely that Avery is guilty.

If we can resolve the EDTA testing issue and move the item "Victim's car contains SA's blood..." from Questionable/Ambiguous to hard Evidence for Steve Avery's Guilt then he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt IMO.
12-31-2015 , 05:27 PM
The bizarre part about the case is that the known facts under "Evidence for Steve Avery's Guilt" are circumstantial.

The Questionable/Ambiguous Evidence items are all attempts afterward to directly link Avery to the circumstantial evidence. Each item is questionable such that when taken together as a whole they actually lean more toward Evidence for Avery's Innocence than Guilt.
12-31-2015 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG Making a Murderer
The bizarre part about the case is that the known facts under "Evidence for Steve Avery's Guilt" are circumstantial.

The Questionable/Ambiguous Evidence items are all attempts afterward to directly link Avery to the circumstantial evidence. Each item is questionable such that when taken together as a whole they actually lean more toward Evidence for Avery's Innocence than Guilt.
Yea....imo all of what seems to be LEO attempts to manufacture a smoking gun have in fact weakened the case against SA greatly.
12-31-2015 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
just watched this. lol at 'theresa halbach was raped and murdered in 2005'. awful journalism.
12-31-2015 , 10:21 PM
Dean Strang just seems like such an awesome human being.
12-31-2015 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerisfunny Making a Murderer
Dean Strang just seems like such an awesome human being.
He really does. Enormous respect for him. His courage obviously, and the way he puts everything so perfectly.

He treated Steven's mom with such respect when he called her while they were waiting for the verdict. Just a helluva man.
12-31-2015 , 11:23 PM
+1. I love how in both interviews he's being asked a couple of "dangerous" questions and he just answers them so perfectly, without trying to avoid/go around the subject. So satisfying to listen to.

He must be getting so much positive feedback, every time his name is brought up everyone loves the guy.
01-01-2016 , 09:42 AM
They would have been better off killing SA and framing it as a suicide than framing a murder on him. I don't buy that anybody other than a member of that family killed her.
01-01-2016 , 01:11 PM
I'm not American (my mother is), but I'm still furious after seeing this. All documentary discussion aside, I think the more important things:

-write to Avery or Dassey here: http://stevenavery.org/write-to-bren...-avery-in-jail

Those dudes deserve your support if you think they're innocent and the system failed them.

I'm still figuring out the most effective groups in terms of donating money to their cause, not going to post that prematurely. But godamn, I'm not going to just watch that and sleep normally at night. Just too close to home for me to swallow.
01-01-2016 , 03:26 PM
if youre donating money, surely giving directly to SA's mom is the best.
01-01-2016 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kioshk Making a Murderer
I just finished episode 4. This is making me so angry it's almost hard to keep watching. I hope there's a special place in hell waiting for these corrupt/incompetent *******s who railroaded this poor bastard. I mean, I'm assuming they're still walking around on the street in Wisconsin somewhere. disgusting
+100

The fact that everyone in the doc gets caught lying including the victims brother when he said he saw the brendon interview when he had not, THE ONLY PERSON WHO DID NOT GET CAUGHT LYING WAS STEVEN.

This has to be one of the hardest thing's i.ve ever seen in my life & i.ve been through a murder trial when my best friend got stabbed to death says a lot.

It would take weeks of writing itt to say all that I would want to say about this case, I hope 1 day steven gets a fair trial elsewhere in the usa, this doc has gave me nightmares & I do believe that a murderer is on the loose in Wisconsin. Also the comments from the state prosecutor were horrible about the avery family. I hope that this doc gets to accomplish what it set out to achieve, if not then the producers should do everything in there power to get the best lawyers in the USA to examine the case & provide it to POTUS for review.

Last edited by smacc25; 01-01-2016 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Can a Mod pls put my post in spoilers if needed, I did try but 'm old lol.
01-01-2016 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4TeHloLz Making a Murderer
I don't buy that anybody other than a member of that family killed her.
What does that have to do with HIS murder case? Your family is not you.
01-01-2016 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esad Making a Murderer
Do people who watched this realize that you are only probably getting about 10% of the information relative to this case? Many people seem to be only judging this case on what is presented in the film which is a very carefully crafted work that is telling one particular story.

There is much more information out there that either clears up some questions or cast serious doubts on some of the speculation.

I have to hand it to the filmmakers though. They made a film that really appeals to the conspiracy minded folks knowing that they would go gaga discussing their version of the story.
So why has the Halbach family dropped the civil suit?
01-01-2016 , 10:36 PM
I assume because there's no money to win
01-01-2016 , 10:41 PM
10% is stupid. Yes, it's not the whole story. It's still not right.
01-01-2016 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
So why has the Halbach family dropped the civil suit?
lawsuits cost money and SA and BD don't even have any to win.

also, halbachs probably didn't anticipate it hanging out there for 7 years after they filed it with no progress during all the appeals and would rather just move on.
01-01-2016 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
Haven't really seen it mentioned in detail here, but Steven Avery allegedly sexually assaulted his relative when she was 16 in 2014.

He was going to be charged if he was somehow found not guilty (but because he was put away for life, and in order to protect the victim, he was never charged).

I find it very disturbing that this (among other info) was never mentioned in the show...

Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...ssault_threat/

Original article: http://archive.htrnews.com/article/9...harges-delayed
Hmmm.......... Steven Avery has been in jail since Nov 2005.
01-01-2016 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5 Making a Murderer
I assume because there's no money to win
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollWave Making a Murderer
lawsuits cost money and SA and BD don't even have any to win.

also, halbachs probably didn't anticipate it hanging out there for 7 years after they filed it with no progress during all the appeals and would rather just move on.
Steven still has Money & also he will receive the property when his father dies.
As for it hanging out there for the appeals to go through they already knew this fact imo, also think about it a civil lawsuit requires less evidence & would take a shorter time in trial especially in WI with a jury from there. Hmm

Sorry but I don't have a lawyers degree or anything but would like a opinion on this if Anyone in the law can provide some details on civil suits? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by smacc25; 01-02-2016 at 12:02 AM. Reason: I am still reading up on this case & trying to separate the facts from fiction.
01-02-2016 , 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Hmmm.......... Steven Avery has been in jail since Nov 2005.
typo. click the links if you actually care.

      
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