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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

12-29-2015 , 09:58 PM
Looks like Anonymous is on the case. This could get interesting...
12-29-2015 , 10:14 PM
any illiterate 13yo can just set up a twitter account and claim to be anonymous and throw together some dumb photoshops. i'm pretty sure that's all that's happening and i'm not holding my breath on seeing anything new. would love to be proven wrong.
12-29-2015 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D1iabol1cal Making a Murderer
One thing I don't understand is why Teresa went back to the property if she was already scared of Avery. I know he supposedly gave a fake name/number, but the address was still the same, so she had to know he was likely to be there before going, no?
That was my first thought as well, but I guess if her job was driving to random places to take pictures of cars the address of any one place might not resonate. And then, even if she recognizes it on her way, she might have been displeased and even uneasy, but thought, "**** it, I'm already here."
12-29-2015 , 11:00 PM
Lol @ the guy just "guessing" her voicemail password. Wtf so much in this case just didn't add up.
12-29-2015 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imjosh Making a Murderer
Lol @ the guy just "guessing" her voicemail password. Wtf so much in this case just didn't add up.
I remember that, that smelled to high heaven.
12-29-2015 , 11:20 PM
Some cliffs to be reminded of if any suspicion of guilt starts to creep into the picture.

Odds of Avery or Dassey having anything to do with this crime are approaching absolute zero if looking at evidence put forth by documentary.

1) Halbach's key:
-Key not found in 6-7 previous searches.
-An officer testifies that key was not there in previous searches.
-Key is "found" by investigator who was not even supposed to be on the scene due to conflict of interest.
-Key has no DNA from victim only from Avery, indicating the key had been scrubbed clean first.
-Appearance of key alleged to be a result of an officer "who will be the first to admit" that he moved a bookcase in a rough fashion (insinuating the key appeared as a result of being knocked from hiding spot due to rough movement) even though multiple police officers have testified that they have examined the bookcase already.

2) Alibis:
-Avery and Dassey witnessed by family members during time which attack is alleged to occur.
-Recorded phone calls made by Avery moments after the rape, murder, mutilation was alleged to take place show no sign that anything is out of ordinary. There is no desire to end the call and no signs of nervousness.

3) Halbachs Car:
-Officer Colborn calls in the license plate after the car is reported missing and before it is found, also OFFERING confirmation of make and model before receiving the information from dispatcher. This is also an officer depositioned in $36 mil. lawsuit and is alleged to have had evidence of Avery's innocence years before his exoneration and did nothing about it.
-Avery's have a car crusher within yards of the vehicle that could have been utilized.
-Car has victim's blood in it indicating the body was placed in car when this was not necessary in order to commit alleged murder.
-Car is discovered by searcher in questionable fashion. Considering the time from the start of the search to the location of the vehicle and the area that needed to be searched, the chances of this being a coincidental "lucky guess" on the part of the searcher are extremely low. Searcher attributes the find to God sending her there. Of all the searchers present that day, she was the only one who was given a digital camera by the person who organized the search, also adding further improbabilities to the equation. Camera provider is ex-boyfriend of victim and has suspicious connections to the case to be listed later.
-Car has Avery's blood in it, but not his fingerprints. Prosecution alledges this came from a cut on the finger of Avery that looked like it had been healing well before the alleged attack would have taken place. Fingerprints from victim are found all over car indicating that lack of fingerprints from Avery meant he wore gloves. But this would make blood less likely to come from cut on Avery's finger.
-Officers caught either lying or changing their stories due to memory failure with regards to who was allowed on the scene near the car after it was discovered. Officer Lenk logs in as leaving, but never arriving. This has significant implications because of his reports of his own activities on the day of the vehicle discovery.

4) Forensics:
- 6-7 searches done on the property by independent authorities who have no conflicts of interest in case. Nothing found. No blood, no DNA, nothing.
- Initial allegations by DA to the media tell of a horrific murder scene based on Dassey's "confession", even though investigators have already confirmed that no blood or DNA of any kind has been found in the areas the DA says these crimes were committed.
- Bones found near Avery's house in burn pit. Near entire skeleton but missing pelvic bones. Pelvic bones later discovered in location hundreds or thousands of yards away in a 2nd burn site indicating bones had been moved. This lessens the likelihood of Avery burning the body as alleged and strengthens the theory that something else happened other than being put forth by prosecution.
- Single bullet from .22 caliber found in Avery's garage. Should be noted that due to the fact that there was not instance of forensic evidence found in the house, the prosecution has now changed the murder scene to the garage where it is alleged that Avery would have been far more able to clean so as to remove forensic evidence. However, video taken by investigators shows that garage has likely not been cleaned in a long time. Bullet was never found in previous 6-7 searches. Officer Lenk again reported to be allowed on scene and admitted on the stand to arriving to scene moments prior to bullet being found.
-Bullet DNA test has extremely high probability of being flawed. Officer Fassbender who also has conflicting interest calls directly to DNA test technician and leaves her a request/order to tie the victim's dna to this piece of evidence. This is proven and not denied in court. DNA test somehow contains both the technician's and victim's dna profile. This is explained by technician as to be training others during the test and saliva may have escaped her mouth and entered the sample while she was talking during the preparation of the test. DNA testing protocol calls for results to be ruled not conclusive if such a thing occurs. Technician testifies that in her entire career she has never had this happen during a DNA test. This is a bullet alleged to have entered the victim's skull, passed through her brain, exited the skull and ended up on the garage floor. However, there is so little dna found that only one test would be able to be performed on the bullet according to technician.
-No blood spatter, blood drops, or blood of any kind, dna of any kind ever found in the garage aside from bullet. Prosecution alleges that Steven Avery must have cleaned the scene even though video taken during initial searches shows the garage has very high likelihood of not having been cleaned for a considerable duration of time. DNA searches do however find DNA of Steven Avery all over the garage and deep into cracks that are opened up by bulldozing machines which make the probability of the garage being cleaned very low and the probability of this being the murder scene approach near 0.
-Steven Avery's blood sample is tampered with: It has a case with protective tape on it that seals the case to show it has not been opened since the sample was sealed. However, the tape is clearly shown to have been cut and torn on both sides indicating that this sample had been opened at some point after it was taken.
-EDTA test by FBI usually takes 6 months or more but is obtained by prosecution in less than 2 weeks. FBI technician alleges that he was able to do the test quickly because he felt the need to protect the public from police corruption, if there was any. Test has already been proven to be not accurate and FBI does not use the test themselves as evidence. Test is for some reason allowed as evidence by judge although judge denied the defense's request to have their own independant tests done. Test results are negative for presence of EDTA. A positive test would mean that Steven Avery's blood came from a vial that contained EDTA, but a negative test just means that the test was performed was negative and nothing else.

False/Forced Confession evidence:
-Every recorded confession from Dassey shows without a doubt that blatant coercion techniques were used to obtain the confession. The videos in fact are evidence of Brandon's innocence AND at the same time evidence of corruption as he cannot get a single bit of information correct. Meanwhile the investigators consistently feed him the information and claim his admission is valid because he nodded yes or said "yeah" after they asked, "it's true that you and your uncle did this ______, right".
-Len Cachinsky's investigator's forced written statement by Brendon Dassey is allowed in court. The recording shows the investigator clearly stating that he will not help him unless he writes down the correct story. Brendan writes down what happened, but the investigator is not happy with it. He then very aggressively tells him he's wrong and then proceeds to instruct him on exactly what to write and exactly what pictures to draw and what details to include.
-Steven Avery's story never changed and he never wavered once on it. He tells no conflicting stories, timelines or anything other than what he did that day and that he did not commit the crime. Every recorded conversation they have with him from the time she is missing to the present including those to people other than authorities show he is in no way nervous, hurried, contain conflicting details or any such incriminating evidence.

Multiple Suspicious Suspects not investigated:
- Ex-Boyfriend: Should be obvious choice to be investigated but admits on stand no one ever investigated him and he never felt like a suspect and was in fact granted permission by authorities to search the Avery residence. Voicemails are deleted from victim's voice mailbox two days after she is alleged to have been murdered. Boyfriend admits to accessing her cell phone records online after her being reported missing. Says he guessed both her username and password (showing an ability to access her cellphone records implies that he also has the ability to access her voicemail). He exhibits nervous behaviour throughout documentary. Happens to let the person who discovered the vehicle borrow the camera minutes before she "found" the car.
- Scott Tadych and/or Bobby Dassey: Were each other's alibis on the day of disappearance and then seemingly lied or exaggerated the things they saw and timeline of the day as proven by defense and witness testimony (bus driver).
- Halbach's own family: Brother and ex-bf seem to have some collusion happening at various times of the documentary. Brother almost seems too convinced it's Avery from the beginning. Makes references to her being dead before it is confirmed. She never mentions brother in home videos, only mentions her sisters.

DA Drops Hints of Malevolence by County:
-DA is removed from his job after sexting scandal shows he is manipulating victims of domestic violence to sleep with him. Also checks into rehab for addiction. Sends email to his bosses with subtle threats of not continuing to support their efforts against the Avery's if they decide to remove him. There's no reason to bring this up unless he has some sort of leverage on them.

Conclusion: 1) If the given above statements are true, there is almost zero chance Avery and Dassey had anything to do with this murder. I mean that in a very literal way, like "0.00000000000000000000000169". 2) The Manitowoc county personal involved in this had far greater means and motive to commit/arrange a murder and pin it on Avery than anyone ever proved Avery had to murder the victim.

It's just not even close.

All this is IMHO
12-29-2015 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff Disciple Making a Murderer
So these are the things that I think look bad for SA:

1) DNA found all over and under the hood of the car. It is possible he touched other parts of the car before her death for whatever reason, but not under the hood.

2) That he called her phone using *67 3 times earlier in the day, only to call without using it later. This is consistent with trying to establish an alibi and hide that she ever arrived.

3) Specifically requesting Teresa be the one to come and take the pictures and use his sister's name since she refused to see him after last time. This makes me think he definitely wanted Teresa specifically showing up for a reason, and him being in just a towel the previous time isn't good for him at all either.

There is other even more circumstantial evidence like his supposed 'torture room' that can only be attributed to two prisoners (not trustworthy sources at all) and a clearly tricked mentally slow kid.

Even thinking through all of this, I'd be hard pressed to convict or even make too clear of storylines for how and why he could have killed her. For every one bad fact there are good facts beside it like him talking to his fiancee multiple times when he would have been committing this murder.
I don't understand. This thread is about the documentary called "Making a Murderer" on Netflix. I don't remember seeing any of these three pieces of evidence or "facts" in there. Did you get them from somewhere else? If so, where?

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 12-29-2015 at 11:28 PM.
12-29-2015 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff Disciple Making a Murderer
So these are the things that I think look bad for SA:

1) DNA found all over and under the hood of the car. It is possible he touched other parts of the car before her death for whatever reason, but not under the hood.

2) That he called her phone using *67 3 times earlier in the day, only to call without using it later. This is consistent with trying to establish an alibi and hide that she ever arrived.

3) Specifically requesting Teresa be the one to come and take the pictures and use his sister's name since she refused to see him after last time. This makes me think he definitely wanted Teresa specifically showing up for a reason, and him being in just a towel the previous time isn't good for him at all either.

There is other even more circumstantial evidence like his supposed 'torture room' that can only be attributed to two prisoners (not trustworthy sources at all) and a clearly tricked mentally slow kid.

Even thinking through all of this, I'd be hard pressed to convict or even make too clear of storylines for how and why he could have killed her. For every one bad fact there are good facts beside it like him talking to his fiancee multiple times when he would have been committing this murder.
First, SA's DNA wasn't all over the car. There were 2 or 3 blood spots. Considering it is indisputable that:
- A vial of SA's blood was held in a container that was tampered with.
- Said vial had a punctured lid consistent with a syringe and LabCorp unambiguously states all vials are sealed when leaving the lab

I don't place any weight on SA's blood in the car. Especially when you consider Lenk was caught on tape lying about his presence at the crime scene when the car was discovered.

As for the DNA under the hood; it's important to note that is wasn't found until nearly 6 months later because of a 'confession' from Brendan. While I don't place any weight on Brendan's confession in general, if you read the transcript regarding this particular point, Brendan only confirms that Steven opened the hood after it was suggested by the interrogators....in the shadiest possible way. So even if you believe his confession, the manner in which this point was reached is super suspicious on the part of the police; thus destroying the credibility of the DNA swab of the hood.

As such I place zero weight on the SA DNA in the RAV4. Additionally, the presence of Teresa's blood in the car is suspicious at best considering her bones were found like 20 feet from SA's trailer, AND no DNA of hers was found in the trailer or garage. Suggesting SA is a secret forensic genius who was capable of removing all trace of her from inside the trailer and garage, but not from a car he, for reasons passing understanding, used to transport her body 20 feet. Does not compute.
12-29-2015 , 11:36 PM
Read up on the case. There's a lot of things that weren't shown that point to SA. I think his phone calls were pretty damning.

The vial being punctured is standard. The fact that the filmmakers left that in there should open some people's eyes to just how badly some things were slanted to portray SA as innocent.
12-29-2015 , 11:38 PM
Pretty good article about what was left out. I agree with the author, if anything MaM shows the massive issues with our legal system.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies...nt-present.php

Last edited by Yeti; 12-30-2015 at 12:08 AM. Reason: fixed link
12-29-2015 , 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditch Digger Making a Murderer
Read up on the case. There's a lot of things that weren't shown that point to SA. I think his phone calls were pretty damning.

The vial being punctured is standard. The fact that the filmmakers left that in there should open some people's eyes to just how badly some things were slanted to portray SA as innocent.
I want to believe, I do. It might be the sickest twist of all time if it turns out he did it. Would be GOAT documentary.

So what was not shown that points to SA?
12-30-2015 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorbacker Making a Murderer
Pretty good article about what was left out. I agree with the author, if anything MaM shows the massive issues with our legal system.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies...nt-present.php
He is wrong on several points...I mean the first point he makes re: didn't specify what type of animal cruelty....is wrong. They (the documentary)said he threw a cat into a fire; there was even an interview of Steven admitting it. The only point they didn't mention was the cat was doused in oil before being thrown.

Several other wrong points.
12-30-2015 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorbacker Making a Murderer
Pretty good article about what was left out. I agree with the author, if anything MaM shows the massive issues with our legal system.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies...nt-present.php

Article Sources:

Spoiler:
Sources: Milwaukee Mag, Reddit


This will probably turn out to be a big problem. Anything posted online as something "being left out" is now going to be discredited automatically. Maybe that's good because he either committed this crime or he didn't. And it has to be all-in one direction or the other. If he did not commit the crime, then everything the prosecution has claimed is false. Everything they went to their little BS press conferences with is false. Every statement those scumbags made to the media is false. So these, "here's what you didn't see" articles all point to sources in Wisconsin media or don't cite their sources. So there's no way I'm ever going to believe some online article about this case unless some credible sources are named. Even then.....

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 12-30-2015 at 12:32 AM.
12-30-2015 , 12:24 AM
nobody is saying SA is a good guy--there is just too much bs surrounding the case for there to be a ton of reasonable doubt. hell look at the jury, 7 of the 11 remaining jury members initially were in favor of SA being innocent in the initial voting and they saw the entire deliberation.
12-30-2015 , 12:46 AM
Here are the transcripts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...l_transcripts/

Last edited by razorbacker; 12-30-2015 at 12:58 AM.
12-30-2015 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
any illiterate 13yo can just set up a twitter account and claim to be anonymous and throw together some dumb photoshops. i'm pretty sure that's all that's happening and i'm not holding my breath on seeing anything new. would love to be proven wrong.
Confirmed to be what it is
12-30-2015 , 01:09 AM
http://archive.postcrescent.com/arti...loses-its-case

article contains some quotes and paraphrased testimony from witnesses the defense called - stuff not in the show.

Of note - it was TH's brother who 'deleted' (or didn't save) the voicemails, from his own testimony. Her voicemail password was her birthday, he knew this since he was the one who setup her website and she used the same password on there. Seems very strange that he listened to the messages because he thought they might help find her...but gave up halfway through since they weren't helping.

Did he think every message was going to help? Wouldn't it be more likely only 1 important message as to where she would be...and heck, wouldn't that be expected to be one of the last ones, not the first? And how long would it have even taken to listen to them all, like an extra 2 minutes.
12-30-2015 , 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I don't understand. This thread is about the documentary called "Making a Murderer" on Netflix. I don't remember seeing any of these three pieces of evidence or "facts" in there. Did you get them from somewhere else? If so, where?
I got them from various articles quoted itt pages 1-3. Some things were left out of the doc, and some of those things held more weight to me than the completely defendant-focused series. I still agree w the sentiment he should have been acquitted, but it seems a bit more is out there than shown.
12-30-2015 , 04:53 AM
Kratz's Yelp page currently getting owned by interneters. Pretty fun read.
12-30-2015 , 05:29 AM
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
12-30-2015 , 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedeete Making a Murderer
Kratz's Yelp page currently getting owned by interneters. Pretty fun read.
This one though:

Spoiler:
Are you a victim of a sex crime in need of some self-esteem-enhancing sexts from an older affluent (by Wisconsin standards) mustachio-ed lothario?

Are you a vindictive dirty cop who needs a charismatic prosecutor to help you put an innocent man in jail?

Are you a developmentally disabled teen who needs some help fabricating a confession inflammatory enough to get you life in prison?

Do you feel like the criminal justice system needs more perversion? Or even just more perverts?

If you answered "YES" to any one of these questions, then Ken Kratz is your man! With a proven and documented record of obsession with his own penis and vindication of corruption, Ken Kratz can help you perpetrate your evil deeds - he might even join in the fun, because if he's anything, he's a people person.

Ken Kratz - because he's never met a work of fiction he thought was too sweaty to repeat. Or embellish.
12-30-2015 , 06:35 AM
12-30-2015 , 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I want to believe, I do. It might be the sickest twist of all time if it turns out he did it. Would be GOAT documentary.

So what was not shown that points to SA?
As someone who leans towards him being innocent, how would him being guilty be "the sickest twist of all time"? Out of all the possible outcomes, the most likely outcome is still that he did it, and the police planted evidence to speed up the process and make sure he couldn't escape.

I think you're seeing it too black and white, it's not really SA vs the cops. Both could be guilty.
12-30-2015 , 08:25 AM
People who watch that and think the documentary prove avery to be innocent are as bad as people who followed it and thought he was guilty for sure. Sadly the only conclusion is that Avery isnt proven guilty without reasonnable doubt and that most people involved in that need to be properly investigated and to be punished for that joke of an investigation and trial.

A few days before watching it i was talking to my thai wife about how corrupt her police is, and didnt agree with her that it s everywhere in the world like that... i was so ashamed when watching the documentary with her
12-30-2015 , 08:32 AM
It doesn't seem like the judge is getting as much heat as he should be getting. He denied quite a few requests from the defense that he shouldn't have. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he is part of the "good ol' boy" club.

      
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