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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

02-02-2016 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
Do you know if they took picture of the car's interior before it was moved? I would like to see the position of the passenger seat. I know this is just speculation, but in my experience, single people don't often chance the seat position, and for some reason, it tends to be all the way forward. If BD got in the car, I would expect to see the seat in a position where he could at least fit in (even at 16 he was pretty big and a RAV4 is basically a small car designed as an SUV).

Also, +1 to if BD was in the car that he would leave zero traces makes no sense. (However, to be fair, if the lab was interested in planting evidence - which I don't think it was, planting fibers of BD's clothes would have been simple).
As far as i know they almost never took pictures as the protocole instruct so it's unlikely.
02-02-2016 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
At 7:30pm on November 5th, officers again entered the trailer and searched for 2.5 hours, seizing around 50 pieces of evidence. They ended the search around 10:30pm, due to the late hour and bad weather.
What does bad weather have to do with searching the inside of a trailer?

Also, 2.5hrs isn't cursory. Colborn testified that at the time they were still treating it as a missing persons case, and they hadn't yet found the bones, but they decide to take the fuzzy pink hand cuffs and "leg irons" (which ended up containing no TH DNA by the way) into evidence.

Since when are pink hand cuffs evidence in a missing persons case?
02-02-2016 , 03:04 PM
You would think Poorskillz would have better spatial recognition of the inside of a trailer.

For everyone else the kind of trailer being discussed is extremely small inside. That they seemingly had three officers crammed into the "Bedroom" of such a small entity is clown car comical. That some in this thread think a couple / few hours is only a small amount of time to search such a small area is ridiculous.
02-02-2016 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
IM referring to avery's blood. There were multiple stains of his blood in the car and some of them were caused by his blood dripping.

Also the stain in his own car was consistent with the stain in her car by the ignition.
I'm guessing the swabs that Sherry took of the Grand Am were also very consistent with the stains in the RAV 4. In fact, it was probably the exact same blood! But who knows, they were left on her desk in the open air to dry and in a locker that (literally) 50 people had access too.

NBD, biggest case of her career.
02-02-2016 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
By the way, if the murder happened as BD describes, and then TH was put in the back of the car, shouldn't we expect to find a lot more blood?
Please don't cloud the issue by asking why shootings don't produce blood. It causes the robots to overheat.
02-02-2016 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
From the show:

Barb: Why would he say this about you then? You tell me. He was over by you that night.

Steven: That night he came over, we had the bonfire and he was home by 9:00, 'cause Jodi called me at 9:00, and I was in the house already.



Do you realize how misleading the "7th search" thing is? It's covered in the trial. Here's a summary:

"This key was found after Avery's trailer had been entered multiple times. The first entry was a 10-minute sweep of the entire trailer, performed on November 5th after Teresa's car was found. This was just a cursory search to find any signs of Teresa alive. At 7:30pm on November 5th, officers again entered the trailer and searched for 2.5 hours, seizing around 50 pieces of evidence. They ended the search around 10:30pm, due to the late hour and bad weather. On November 6th, officers again entered the trailer for about 20 minutes, with a list of specific items to collect. The list included weapons, a vacuum cleaner, and bedding from the spare bedroom, noted the night before. This entry did not constitute a search, merely a collection of items previously noted. Also on November 6th, members of the State Crime Lab used special lighting to search the trailer for DNA evidence, and collected swabs from a few spots of blood found. (These were later matched to Steven Avery.) On the morning of November 8th, officers again entered the trailer for seven minutes. Their purpose was only to collect the serial number from Avery's computer, and they did not enter the bedroom. Also on November 8th, officers entered and spent three hours and 43 minutes doing a thorough search of the trailer. This was the search during which the key was located, and was a continuation of the search ended at 10:30pm on November 5.

Officers testified they were collecting pornographic materials from the bookcase in the bedroom, and bumped and shook it quite a bit while searching it. After searching the bookcase, they noticed a key on the floor next to it that had not been there before. They assumed it had been on or in the bookcase, and had fallen to the floor when the bookcase was moved. The back panel of the bookcase was separated from the body, so the key could've fallen through the back as it was turned and searched. The key was noticed by Lt. James Lenk, who had been deposed in Avery's wrongful imprisonment suit against Manitowoc County. He was under the supervision of Deputy Kucharski from the Calumet County Sheriff's Department, whose job was to oversee the search and keep watch over the Manitowoc County officers. Kucharski testifies that while he kept watch over the officers and did not believe the key was planted, it would have been possible when he was distracted."

- See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/was-evidence-planted/
So before the search that actually found the key you had 10-20 man hours of people in a tiny trailer and it never showed up.

Lol not until another massive chunk of time and multiple man hours did it show up.

So ridiculous. The amount of time all the officers spent in that trailer they could have touched and removed it, placed it outside then put it back in the trailer several times over.

Having some 30 plus man hours spent tromping around a tiny trailer is absurd. That you think this makes any sense is why you don't understand the problems people have with this case and investigation.

The more you push your silly "it wasn't seven searches" the more actual reflection makes me think the key had to be planted because there is literally no other way it could have been there all that time.
02-02-2016 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
From the show:

Barb: Why would he say this about you then? You tell me. He was over by you that night.

Steven: That night he came over, we had the bonfire and he was home by 9:00, 'cause Jodi called me at 9:00, and I was in the house already.



Do you realize how misleading the "7th search" thing is? It's covered in the trial. Here's a summary:

"This key was found after Avery's trailer had been entered multiple times. The first entry was a 10-minute sweep of the entire trailer, performed on November 5th after Teresa's car was found. This was just a cursory search to find any signs of Teresa alive. At 7:30pm on November 5th, officers again entered the trailer and searched for 2.5 hours, seizing around 50 pieces of evidence. They ended the search around 10:30pm, due to the late hour and bad weather. On November 6th, officers again entered the trailer for about 20 minutes, with a list of specific items to collect. The list included weapons, a vacuum cleaner, and bedding from the spare bedroom, noted the night before. This entry did not constitute a search, merely a collection of items previously noted. Also on November 6th, members of the State Crime Lab used special lighting to search the trailer for DNA evidence, and collected swabs from a few spots of blood found. (These were later matched to Steven Avery.) On the morning of November 8th, officers again entered the trailer for seven minutes. Their purpose was only to collect the serial number from Avery's computer, and they did not enter the bedroom. Also on November 8th, officers entered and spent three hours and 43 minutes doing a thorough search of the trailer. This was the search during which the key was located, and was a continuation of the search ended at 10:30pm on November 5.

Officers testified they were collecting pornographic materials from the bookcase in the bedroom, and bumped and shook it quite a bit while searching it. After searching the bookcase, they noticed a key on the floor next to it that had not been there before. They assumed it had been on or in the bookcase, and had fallen to the floor when the bookcase was moved. The back panel of the bookcase was separated from the body, so the key could've fallen through the back as it was turned and searched. The key was noticed by Lt. James Lenk, who had been deposed in Avery's wrongful imprisonment suit against Manitowoc County. He was under the supervision of Deputy Kucharski from the Calumet County Sheriff's Department, whose job was to oversee the search and keep watch over the Manitowoc County officers. Kucharski testifies that while he kept watch over the officers and did not believe the key was planted, it would have been possible when he was distracted."

- See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/was-evidence-planted/
Cool story bro. Now lets read the actual testimony from the actual case:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer


First search of SA's trailer is 3 hours. LOL PoorSkillz....

There have already been 2 extremely qualified evidence techs / photographers testify that not only were they there, they "had time to kill" because of the weather. They are just waiting for the tow truck to come haul away the RAV 4 (which, btw, hasn't even been opened yet! That doesn't happen until it's back at the Crime Lab. Yeah, THAT Crime Lab that J-Butes filed the ethics report on.)

Yet the three people with the most to gain from SA's guilty verdict are assigned to search SA trailer. This is just so outlandish it's unreal. An officer from Calumet County is ALSO assigned to the trailer, but his job his job is NOT to server the search warrant nor is it to search for Teresa Halbach who might be alive. You might think, "well, his job is to collect evidence - but you would be wrong. His job is to WATCH the three MC officers conduct the search. 1 Calumet, 3 Manitowoc. This makes absolutely no sense.
02-02-2016 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
LOL trying to communicate effectively = shenanigans.
And then every single witness called by the state does the exact same, obvious chair swivel in order to spew lies to the jury = coached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Is going to law school and learning how to give a good closing argument "shenanigans"?
Probably not.
02-02-2016 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Cool story bro. Now lets read the actual testimony from the actual case:
The summary says their first search was really quick for 10 minutes, and the second search was 2.5 hours. The testimony excerpt you posted says they "were out of there within 3 hours". I don't see the discrepancy, but thanks.

Also lol at investigation experts like mark, thanks for your expert opinion on what a search should be like.
02-02-2016 , 04:06 PM
10 minutes in an area the size of a cubicle should still yield good results.

2.5 hours should turn up everything under the sun.
02-02-2016 , 04:22 PM


The "towel" incident.
02-02-2016 , 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
The summary says
The summary?
02-02-2016 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer


The "towel" incident.
you should have put that in some kind of NSFW spoiler, so much harassment and a borderline rape scene description
02-02-2016 , 04:31 PM
On the 6th Nov the crime lab entered SA trailer with special light's to search for DNA, so special are these lights that the only thing they see are tiny speck's of DNA, so when we need to see larger objects the crime lab puts the light back on.

Oh & how about the Statement's BD made to the PI:
http://www.businessinsider.com/makin...16-1?r=UK&IR=T
02-02-2016 , 04:34 PM


Same towel incident witness getting caught in a lie while trying to strengthen State's stance that Teresa was "lured" to the property.
02-02-2016 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer


The "towel" incident.
Did the co-worker leave out important details? Like So teresa would you, would I what, you know if he came into all THAT MONEY,
02-02-2016 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
You and so many others just don't seem to understand that it's impossible to prove a negative.

Let me try to put this in a context you can understand: let's say you were playing in a poker tournament and at some point you are seated at the same table as your friend. This is a "conflict of interest", but you didn't ask the tournament director to switch you to another table.

There's no proof that you played any differently than usual, although you did make one very smart fold against your friend. Now people are accusing you of cheating for the rest of your life, despite no evidence you actually did anything wrong. Is this fair?
More like two brothers who are SNG regs tell all the other regs they won't play in the same games and then do it anyway.
02-02-2016 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
You and so many others just don't seem to understand that it's impossible to prove a negative.

This is high time amusement coming from someone who A) Does not understand reasonable doubt, B) Does not understand the founding principles of the United States Judicial system. The fact that you can not prove a negative is exactly why the system exists the way it does and why all of the burden lays with the prosecution to prove something.

Try applying your analyzation of analogies to the actual issues at hand. I am confident that some day it will sink in.
02-02-2016 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
You and so many others just don't seem to understand that it's impossible to prove a negative.
What do you mean by this?
02-02-2016 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
This is high time amusement coming from someone who A) Does not understand reasonable doubt
You disagree with the court's instructions on reasonable doubt.

At least you've learned how to spell the term.

Baby steps.
02-02-2016 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneuy3 Making a Murderer
If he was running an illegal search and found an RAV 4 vehicle why would he call it in in that case either? He knows his phone call would be recorded by the dispatch. He could just write down the plate, drive to the station, check it himself, or run the plate in his own police cruiser, right? Furthermore if his intention was really to find the car illegally you'd think he'd have gathered this information on his own before doing the search. He has those resources right as an officer?

His statements in his testimony seemed reasonable to me. He was informed of a missing person and given a plate number and vehicle description and was calling to verify that the plate number was that of the missing person Theresa Halbach given to him by his source. That seems more logical to me than he ran an illegal search without knowing that information and then called into his dispatch to verify that he found the "correct" vehicle.
I don't claim to know what he was doing. I am just noting it was abnormal and not how such issues are handled. As noted a police officer in this thread had a hard time figuring out why he ever did it.

The issue is EVERYONE involved is corrupt, incompetent or both. At best this seems incompetent.

I am curious in 2016 if the SOP for dispatching missing persons descriptions calling every officer up on the phone so they can pencil it down? Even in a small jurisdiction like this it seems they would have better mechanisms to accurately disseminate such information. If they don't it just adds to the gross incompetence side of the ledger.

A RAV 4 is a fairly unique stylistic vehicle. It's not going to be confused with a Honda Accord, so again what difference does it make if he thinks he might have jotted it down wrong. No angle of this makes him look competent. Everything is not just an issue with corruption, incompetence eeks out of every single person working for those counties and the state. This is a big problem. We have a systemic issue with incompetent and lazy people who have zero oversight and answer to nobody. This is a perfect storm leading to people taking short cuts and doing other things to "put the bad guys away".

I can't think of a single person working for the state / counties in these cases who should not be fired for gross negligence / incompetence. However this problem seems to be prevalent across the entire state of Wisconsin. So there is nobody there to fix it.
02-02-2016 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof Making a Murderer
What do you mean by this?
It's in response to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
"if it ever happend that someone prove theres 0% framing or 0% unprofessional conduct what will you say"
How do you prove there wasn't framing?

How do you prove aliens didn't come down from the sky and kill Teresa?

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation.
02-02-2016 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof Making a Murderer
What do you mean by this?
You really don't know what this means? Yikes
02-02-2016 , 06:16 PM
Regarding photos of the bookcase:

The everything the cops did is legit crowd would have us believe that after violently shaking the key and other items loose of the case that they would put everything back nicely before taking photos while we know that when Jodi visits the trailer after all their searches the place is completely trashed with **** everywhere. Seriously?

      
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