I think it's very difficult for us to know if he's guilty or innocent so anyone taking a strong one-sided opinion is either stupid or trolling, or both.

The only thing the viewer can be subjectively certain of is that the investigative work was very poorly done.

Ya, and he is arguing that you are full of ****. No one is trolling.

FYP

I think the problem most people have with you guys is you don't understand how our legal system is supposed to work and how these is the poster boy case for all its many massive failings.

Nobody gives a crap if you think Avery is guilty. The fact you guys either ignorantly or intentionally don't know how the legal system is supposed to work and why this whole thing is such a massive fail is the issue.

Here's to hoping all of you get charged with a serious felony you did, or even better did not do, because clearly telling you guys that touching the hot stove is bad is not working.

This case is a culmination of issues with our legal system for decades snd decades and you are talking about whether you think he is guilty or innocent. You don't get any of it. You don't understand the discussion or the issues and most importantly the problems.

Most people here don't care if Avery is guilty or innocent as that is not the point of any of this. The point is every single member of law enforcement in the entire state of Wisconsin who touched this case was either incompetent and/or corrupt. THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE, that dwarves Avery's guilt or innocence by magnitudes.

That is why fall the meandering back and forth about evidence is so dumb and so very Knox thread (worst thread in history of the Internet). None of that garbage matters and if all you guys are goimg to do is nitpick evidence we are ALL aware of and try to show us how smart and contrarian you are you will be ridiculed.

Because not a single one of you has ever addressed the real issues.

So I posit you the question. Do you think Mantiwoc County, Calumet County and the State of Wisconsin did a thorough, by the book, competent job investigating all phases of these cases? A simple yes or no would be great.

Can a mod ip check fraley just to see if he is in Wisconsin?

I wish my parents were as easy to convince as Fraley when I was young.

"EFrom, where'd did all my vodka go?"

"I don't recall"

"No big deal then, he doesn't remember"

From Kratz's opening statement:

Yeah because if he came across a matching RAV4 with a plate where one digit was off he would just assume it was a different one. LOL.

Since you bought up the size of the area, how many RAV 4's matching the description are in that area? Don't you think the local police would investigate any and all RAV 4's they came across. Just lol he called to verify the plate information preemptively. This, like EVERY SINGLE OTHER ACTION BY LAWVENFORCEMENT IN THIS CASE, points to incompetence, corruption or both. Police officers in this thread said his behavior here makes no sense.

Why is THE BEST CASE SCENARIO for every single investigative action gross incompetence? That is the best case in all examples. It's horrifying.

How many RAV 4's do you think the officer sees in a typical day in a city that size?

By the way some quick googling shows me in 2010 160k of the 11.1 million cars sold were RAV 4s or 1.4%

So again how many RAV 4s do you think he as seeing that he had to double down on the plate information? Wouldn't a semi competent officer investigate any RAV 4 they saw in that area?

What the heck are you talking about? He was called by Wiegert to help assist in the missing persons investigation. This is a fact.

He explains why he called dispatch in his testimony:

Your post betrays that you haven't read the transcripts and are just making **** up.

Did you expect him to open with "this case is tainted by a clear conflict of interest"?

Ken kratz is definitly the one guy i would synchronise my moral compass with

So, to recap his testimony surrounding the call;

He definitely doesn't remember making the call. But he also definitely wasn't looking at the back of her car, and he also definitely only made the call to try and jog his memory of a plate number he didn't write down, and a car that he didn't know was a '99 Toyota.

Correct, confirming a plate isn't exactly a memorable phone call.

Correct, that's something memorable.

Mostly correct, it was to confirm he wrote it down correctly.

Incorrect, as he testifies he was confirming information received from Wiegert.

So, why didn't he just call Weigert instead of dispatch?

The problem you have with wearing blinders here is that under these facts, you are either going to have to admit, Colborn is incompetent or corrupt.

I actually understand the legal system very well. But Yes, I do think Manitwoc could have handled the entire case better. I do not think anything they did should effect any jury from convicting avery. I do not think anyone involved in this case had any motive to frame avery, aside from a cop always having the motive to "get the guy they think did it"

Actually, as a side note, I have been charged with a felony before. And I think the state did some questionable stuff in my case as well.

1) they questioned me about my involvement without an attorney or my parents present ( I was 16)

2) the state charged me with a Class D then upped my charge to class A after the judge agreed my case should be kept in juvenile court. After I was recharged I was re arrested and put in jail until my case was settled. Which the state allowed me to plea to the Class D anyway so they were not actually charging me with what they wanted to convict me of.

3) the county that was charging me was supposed to remove all indication of this off my record per the plea and did not for almost 2 years after I finished my sentence. Preventing me from getting other work for a long time.

4) My court appointed lawyer in adult court was an idiot and was handling a murder trial while doing my case.. Do you know how much time a murder trial takes? Needless to say, he didn't see me in jail once.

You do know they refused to allow professional from the defense to observe the testing but then proceeded to have students hanging out during the actual testing.

That is so absurd.

He didn't call Weigert. What are you talking about?

Lol so he faked the evidence scene before taking a picture of the key? WTF. Do you even think about the things you type?

Anyone with minor detective skills could discover my full name by now. I have already told you guys where I live ffs. It shouldn't take you long if you really wanted to know who I am.

Idk what more I can say here. If he wanted to verify the information he should call. He called, I don't know how you can take that as incompetency or that he wouldn't have investigated any Rav 4s. Like I said, they probably have very few missing cases in this area and he would have likely thought it was important. I don't see why you think what I am saying is a stretch.

So basically you're claiming the following happened;

Weigert "Hey Andy, we have a missing person, her license plate is XXX 555 and she's driving a '99 Toyota"


Colborn *while driving* "Got it, thank"


- Later that same evening

Colborn *thinking to himself* 'geez, I wish I could remember that license plate number Weigert told me earlier, I should call him and double check.'

***lightbulb***

Colborn, *also thinking to himself* 'better yet, I'll call a completely different person, that doesn't know the license plate in order to jog my memory'

Colborn "hey Lynn......"

Um no, my theory is that something came over the radio informing them there is a missing person and their plate number is "xxx xxx" he wanted to make sure he had the plate number correct so he phoned dispatch.

Again, from his testimony:

This is his testimony. If you consider that him "faking the evidence", so be it, but it's what's happened and there didn't really seem to be a stink raised about it from the defense (only from you).

Are you currently doing yoga?

He actually called Manitowoc and got into contact with Colborn. You can read Wiegert's Nov 3 report here: http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...interviews.pdf