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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-31-2016 , 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28renton Making a Murderer
^ Thank you for reminding people of this.

The cavalier attitude of some people towards an admittedly contaminated test being allowed into evidence is mind-boggling. It's all well and good to be cavalier about contaminated tests until it happens to you. Bet it would suddenly become real important then.
If a burn pit I was tending all day and night is ever found to contain bones of a murdered women who was with me last and made her last phone call in my general area with her stuff 20 ft from my door and her vehicle found in my hard with my blood inside, I will not complain about evidence promise.. You know why? Because I will never be caught in that situation because I do not kill people.
01-31-2016 , 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
For people pretending law enforcement and judges don't **** up hard how many exemple do you need to stop talking about conspiracy like people are 9/11 truther when they are critical of the people that are supposed to be the one protecting them.

Would you think some judge can sell kids to some private jail ?
The answer is yes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
Can you show me one example of someone who was framed with this much evidence? Sure, there are coerced confessions, forced dna matches on faulty evidence etc.. But nothing like this. This is literally a slam dunk case for the defense. SA was a stupid not to plea.
01-31-2016 , 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
If a burn pit I was tending all day and night is ever found to contain bones of a murdered women who was with me last and made her last phone call in my general area with her stuff 20 ft from my door and her vehicle found in my hard with my blood inside, I will not complain about evidence promise.. You know why? Because I will never be caught in that situation because I do not kill people.
But do you rape people on the beach?

Nothing further....
01-31-2016 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The garage was not "thoroughly searched" until BD told them that she was shot there. And the bullet fragments were not in plain sight.

The key was trapped between the book desk and a loose piece from the back that had it pinned down. Once the book case got moved the keys fell out from the back. Its not as much of a stretch as the doc made it out to be, especially when you see pictures of the back of the book case.
It was searched prior to BDs statements. The bullet with TH's DNA was found in plain sight.

It's not a stretch that a key was dislodged from that book case. It is a stretch that the first day that Manitowoc personnel do not have an official babysitter that they manage to find that key within minutes of entering a trailer that has already been searched for hours. And it's only the valet key, clearly disconnected from the rest oh and it somehow does not have TH's DNA on it.
01-31-2016 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The garage was not "thoroughly searched" until the cops found absolutely not one shred of evidence to support the coerced confession from BD. They only needed this confession in order to get a search warrant to the trailer so they could plant everything in peace and quiet. Not realizing this, "The Prize" went into action mode to take his womanizing game to the next level through grandstanding and holding constitutional-rights-defying press conferences. Unfortunately this brought the microscope and press way too close to the scene making the full plant job in the trailer impossible. They would only be able to pull off the "key" in the trailer.

So Weigert and Fassbender had to regroup and after many, many suggestions, guesses, coercion and "being honest", BD finally figured out what it was they needed him to say, that after he raped her and punched her in the head and cut her hair and cut her throat and stabbed her and cleaned it up with a paper towel, she was carried then put on a sled then put on a creeper then put in the back of the car, then taken out of the car and then she was shot 5, 2, 11, 10 times in the garage. So
BD told them that she was shot there. And the bullet fragments were not in plain sight.
FYP
01-31-2016 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Can you show me one example of someone who was framed with this much evidence? Sure, there are coerced confessions, forced dna matches on faulty evidence etc.. But nothing like this. This is literally a slam dunk case for the defense. SA was a stupid not to plea.
Exemple as documented as this one it's unlikely because not Everyone is catching the attention of some film student.
And as you said avery not accepting a plea deal is a big problem for him since he ll end up most likely longer in jail. But it's a way bigger problem for the prosecution if avery isn't guilty since it's only a slam dunk if he plea.
Now we ll see if Zellner is full of **** or not. The sad part is that if she fail we ll here from you forever. If she deliver you ll just disappear.

Last edited by eddymitchel; 01-31-2016 at 05:11 AM.
01-31-2016 , 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
Can you show me one example of someone who was framed with this much evidence? Sure, there are coerced confessions, forced dna matches on faulty evidence etc.. But nothing like this. This is literally a slam dunk case for the defense. SA was a stupid not to plea.
Yeah, there's about 10,000 examples in the wikipedia documentation on the corruption in the FBI I just posted.

Let sort through those 10,000 plus the 300+ cases the innocence project has exonerated and I'm sure we can find a few...shall I proceed?
01-31-2016 , 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
They didn't dominate the investigation. They turned over the investigation to Calumet County. Calumet took the lead, and they were the lead in investigating the case.
Did you read the trial transcripts? Because if you had, you'd see that while 2 investigators named Fassbender and Weigert from Calumet were assigned as "lead detectives", their "lead" consisted of assigning 3 Manitowoc County Sheriffs to search the most important scene (to that point), SA's trailer. In fact, the only Calumet Officer allowed in the trailer was specifically ordered NOT to participate in searching, but to "observe" Manitowoc officers (three of them) while they searched and collect what evidence they found.

I'd say 3/1 ratio is pretty dominant, wouldn't you?

Additionally, the fact that Weigert and Fassbender were never actually in the trailer was how they justified the further 7-8 searches, because the "lead detectives assigned to the case" were never actually present to serve the search warrant.
01-31-2016 , 05:35 AM
I found what i was looking about the judge, he doesnt blame avery for the old rape case but he talk about how he ramp up his crimes, when that guy has no reccord of any crime for the last 20 years since he was stuck in jail for most of this time. It's pretty obvious avery was guilty in the judge mind and it affected the whole trial, the fact that he ordered the defense not to seek alternate suspect to "save time" is baffling to me in this context.

And looking at those footage again, i thought it looked like Fassbender was unhappy with his work because even in the end when they "win" he still look super unconfortable in the background. And he isnt the only one who testify during the trial who look really unconfident when he has to justify his work.
01-31-2016 , 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
The key was trapped between the book desk and a loose piece from the back that had it pinned down. Once the book case got moved the keys fell out from the back. Its not as much of a stretch as the doc made it out to be, especially when you see pictures of the back of the book case.
I would disagree with this. The documentary did not mention that they were there to collect a computer and get swabs of blood that the Crime Lab "identified" (but for some reason did not swab themselves). For some reason, this required 3-4 officers, at least 2 of which were Manitowoc Sheriff's deputies both of which had recently been deposed and one of which was actively planning his campaign to run for Sheriff of Manitowoc County and admitted that after his deposition just 2 weeks priot, he had considered that he might be added to the civil side in Avery's current suit against Manitowoc County.

For one reason or another it is this exact moment in time that Colborn decides to "twist, pull and handle roughly" the book case in question. It has nothing to do with the computer or swabs of blood that the Crime Lab failed to collect on their turn in the trailer. In fact, the reason they came up with for searching the bookcase again (because it is so far out of the scope of the search warrant) was "looking for pornographic material" which was later deemed as inadmissible as it was not part of the search warrant. The key however was allowed as admissible due to the "inevitable discovery" rule, even though it was found due to compounded violations of the search warrant. It just makes no sense.

Isn't it just absolutely ironic that the very first time Fassbender and Weigert finally show up to the trailer is the day the key is found. I assume they no longer need the search warrants or extensions at this point, right?

How much of this info was left out of the doc?
01-31-2016 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I understand why negative control is important when testing large quantities of something. Can someone explain to me what negative effect a contaminated negative control has in this situation when the actual bullet in question wasn't contaminated?

I'll assume you have someway of proving the bullet was t contaminated. Maybe running the test with a negative control would be a good place to start. Oh, wait.

Just because the negative control was contaminated with her DNA, doesn't mean other parts of the test weren't contaminated with other DNA. We know she had samples of TH DNA near by.

This is why the negative control is so important.
01-31-2016 , 09:20 AM
http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/tgEG7yY
Can anyone tell if this photo is altered?
01-31-2016 , 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
But do you rape people on the beach?

Nothing further....
See this is pretty clearly the issue imo, people cannot get past the fact that he was wrongly convicted once before, and let that influence how they see the murder case. The 2 have nothing to do with each other, unless perhaps being incarcerated with murderers and rapists for 18 years hardened SA to the point he became capable of murder.
01-31-2016 , 09:35 AM
he got wrongfully sent to jail for merely 18 years by the same office ... no big deal, i dont know why people allways refer to that like it could be relevant
01-31-2016 , 09:40 AM
You're right, I don't know either. They are 2 different crimes with completely different evidence. The first had no physical evidence and relied almost entirely on the victim's ID. The second had an overwhelming amount of evidence all over the place.

BTW it wasn't the same office for the murder case, the lead investigators and DA were from Calumet county.
01-31-2016 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/tgEG7yY
Can anyone tell if this photo is altered?
Lol keep up that internet search for the real killer.

Have you found the real killer in the OJ case yet?
01-31-2016 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
You're right, I don't know either. They are 2 different crimes with completely different evidence. The first had no physical evidence and relied almost entirely on the victim's ID. The second had an overwhelming amount of evidence all over the place.

BTW it wasn't the same office for the murder case, the lead investigators and DA were from Calumet county.

Incorrect.

The same DNA expert that testified in the TH murder trial, and contaminated the DNA test on the bullet, also testified in the rape trial, and incorrectly linked a hair found on the rape victim to SA.

The same hairs that ended up exonerating him.

But yeah, no connection or conflict of interest there.
01-31-2016 , 09:46 AM
People nut hugging the police like it's impossible for them to be bad/inept/dirty don't understand society at all.

Maybe watch The Seven Five, also on Netflix, and then tell me again about how there aren't any bad/dirty cops anywhere.
01-31-2016 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown Making a Murderer
Incorrect.

The same DNA expert that testified in the TH murder trial, and contaminated the DNA test on the bullet, also testified in the rape trial, and incorrectly linked a hair found on the rape victim to SA.

The same hairs that ended up exonerating him.

But yeah, no connection or conflict of interest there.
Nah in the first case they didnt decide that avery would be custom fit as the rapist, and at no point people could suspect that they could do it again.
01-31-2016 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts Making a Murderer
ie. we will imagine NASA reveals they've been testing a high resolution camera that records an area. that day, by chance it happened to be recording all of Wisconsin. they have a clear video of the murder/suicide. the video will be released tomorrow. you are given an opportunity at 1:1 odds to bet if Avery was involved or not.
I'd think of it as a 99+% chance I'm right, so I think I'd probably bet my life savings plus take out a loan to bet on it showing Steven was involved in the murder (he may not have been the one who technically killed her - maybe that was Brendan, maybe even another family member).



Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman Making a Murderer
Here is a good exercise. As a juror put yourself in the position of the defendant and what level of doubt would you find reasonable.

Perhaps you are not from the United States? Reasonsble Doubt is the corner stone of the criminal justice system. It is not something that was invented for these two trials. One of the takeaways from the documentary, and it is a strong one, is that Reasonsble doubt has been twisted by our court system and is not working like it should. So your failure to understand how it is supposed to work is not surprising even if it's disappointing.

Do you understand that the foundation of Reasonsble doubt is the bar is st a place where guilty people will go free in order that innocent people do not get convicted? No right thinking person believes that is how it is currently working and that is one of many monumental problems the documentary shines a light on.

Not only is the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt the bar, you have to start from a presumption of INNOCENCE. So before you start weighing any evidence as a jury you start with the idea that the defendant is innocent. All of the work to meet the very high burden of proof is on the prosecution.

I will say it for the umpteenth time in this thread, the fact that Mantiwoc County was heavily involved in every aspect of this investigation while a) having a huge conflict of interest and b) having said they would step aside is all by itself enough of Reasonsble doubt over pretty much everything that happened after that point.

You CLEARLY do not understand reasonable doubt, it's origins nor it's actual I tended purpose. It being broken in a case like this is why there is so much real outrage. The system is not supposed to work like this and only the most nave people think the way the system works now is okay or would be adequate if they were to find themselves charged with a crime.
You CLEARLY cannot even spell "reasonable doubt" (and have also disagreed with the judge's thoughts on reasonable doubt), so maybe cool it on criticizing others.

Also, this:
Quote:
I will say it for the umpteenth time in this thread, the fact that Mantiwoc County was heavily involved in every aspect of this investigation while a) having a huge conflict of interest and b) having said they would step aside is all by itself enough of Reasonsble doubt over pretty much everything that happened after that point.
is just hilariously wrong.

Regarding the bullet, IIRC:
On the bullet, only Teresa's DNA was found, not Sherry's.
On the negative control, only Sherry's DNA was found, not Teresa's.

It wasn't possible to run the test again, it was a very important piece of evidence, and it was obvious that only TH's DNA was on the bullet and not through contamination. Therefore, a deviation of protocol was filed.

This is completely legal. Again, you want it to be one way, but it's the other way.

Even so, the jury still considered Buting's "asterisks" he put on the piece of evidence, and they still found Steven guilty.


Also, I think revots has made some very good posts ITT.
01-31-2016 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Yeah, there's about 10,000 examples in the wikipedia documentation on the corruption in the FBI I just posted.

Let sort through those 10,000 plus the 300+ cases the innocence project has exonerated and I'm sure we can find a few...shall I proceed?
http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/vPnljVK
01-31-2016 , 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
lol
01-31-2016 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol keep up that internet search for the real killer.

Have you found the real killer in the OJ case yet?
http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/m8TIryD LIKE THIS.
OJ Simpson without a doubt.
Now did you answer my Q's, like show me physical evidence of DB involvement? Or has that photo been altered?
01-31-2016 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Lol keep up that internet search for the real killer.
So this is the guy you stand behind.

http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/ElRQFIE

Remember when he say's jerk back then he actually means Drug addict & sexual predator.
01-31-2016 , 10:15 AM
Pretty good reddit post about some stuff not mentioned in the documentary on the defense side.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...ft_out_of_mam/

That list is huge , when i remember ken kratz pretending it was biased against the prosecution and how small his list was and most of it had no credibility , it s hilariously to read that.

      
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