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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-25-2016 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 Making a Murderer
Oh yeah. I'm sure those two people on the jury with manitowoc law enforcement ties would have surely came around.
Without brendan confession the DA has absolutly no theory about what happend and their case is even weaker.
01-25-2016 , 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight Making a Murderer
I guess it all depends on your opinion of the case. I find it to be dishonest bc dna is in sweat, the letter from kratz is ultimately irrelevant and the suggestion that cops planted evidence by rubbing TH key on some of avery's clothes is silly to me.

also be sure to throw in that #makingamurderer in every tweet.
From everything I've read, sweat in an of itself contains no DNA. The DNA they're referring to would be from skin cells that are sometimes transferred with sweat. IMO it's more dishonest for Kratz to continue calling it sweat DNA rather than just DNA.

You can't prove she's wrong about the cops planting evidence, and at the very least, it's plausible that they did.

The key thing could be true.
01-25-2016 , 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0 Making a Murderer
Maybe for unintended reasons said by the judge, but SA was very dangerous to the entire justice system of the county and Wisconsin if he was not convicted.
I thought that every person found guilty got ALL there previous convictions read out in court after the verdict but admit I was wrong about that.

Do they do it in any states capone0 that you know of?
01-25-2016 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
That conclusion and titles are horrible for so many reason.

1 noone can say avery is absolutly guilty. at least not with what was given to us.

2 Avery is in no way responsible for what happend to his nephew, if brendan is innocent the police/DA and BD lawyer are responsible for his wrongful conviction not avery, for the same reason Allen is not responsible for the 18 years avery spent in jail, at no point Avery inculped his nephew, if brandon is guilty Avery got some responsability because he actually made a minor do that crime
What was given to us was an absolute boatload of physical and circumstantial evidence. Take away the conspiracy theory about the police frame job (which actually IS completely unsubstantiated), and he's guilty.

And of course IF Avery is guilty and his nephew had nothing to do with it, he bears some responsibility for what happened to Brendan. He could have confessed, told exactly how it happened, and cleared his nephew.

Allen clearly helped ruin 2 lives as well, just because the cops made a mistake doesn't mean he holds zero responsibility for Avery ending up in jail. Obviously different when it's your own nephew taking the fall for you though.
01-25-2016 , 08:50 AM
Revot33 Here is a good summary of MaM by Brian McCorkle. Care to expand on this?

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/the-w...tep-forth.html


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01-25-2016 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Also Revots33 can you explain why Leut Lenk name is all squished in between other names. Hint this is the day the bullet was found.

http://i.imgur.com/xSk4PD6.jpg
Can you conceive of any explanations for that? I mean, ones that don't include "it was added later to cover up his planting of evidence?" I'm sure you can if you try hard enough.
01-25-2016 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Allen clearly helped ruin 2 lives as well, just because the cops made a mistake doesn't mean he holds zero responsibility for Avery ending up in jail. Obviously different when it's your own nephew taking the fall for you though.
Just 2 lives? GA ruined WOW
Hint, the cops clearly did not just make ONE mistake.
Did you even read the link I gave or even watch P.B in that video?



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Last edited by smacc25; 01-25-2016 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Opps I thought I posted link for revots33
01-25-2016 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
In this reddit post you will hear that P.B got calls from GA & reported this to MC, & may have been stalking her when doing so.
Protect & Serve?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._know_that_sa/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSlx...ature=youtu.be
Here's the links & video I am talking abouit revots33. Posted again just for you.

I am saying that LT Lenk name being squashed up is more evidence of sloppy work by the PD working on this case.



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01-25-2016 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
What was given to us was an absolute boatload of physical and circumstantial evidence. Take away the conspiracy theory about the police frame job (which actually IS completely unsubstantiated), and he's guilty.
So we have a bunch of circumstantial evidence that Avery is guilty.

We also have circumstantial evidence of police planting evidence.

But yeah, let's just ignore all the bad circumstantial evidence that makes the police look bad, and treat all the circumstantial evidence against Avery as gospel.
01-25-2016 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
What was given to us was an absolute boatload of physical and circumstantial evidence. Take away the conspiracy theory about the police frame job (which actually IS completely unsubstantiated), and he's guilty.

And of course IF Avery is guilty and his nephew had nothing to do with it, he bears some responsibility for what happened to Brendan. He could have confessed, told exactly how it happened, and cleared his nephew.

Allen clearly helped ruin 2 lives as well, just because the cops made a mistake doesn't mean he holds zero responsibility for Avery ending up in jail. Obviously different when it's your own nephew taking the fall for you though.
What was given to us is a ton of evidences that are tainted by a lack of professionnalism from breaking protocoles or very unethical actions at best. In a real justice system a ton of them are inadmissible, ofc it can end up freeing some assassins which is bad but at the same time protect innocents which is much more important.
No it s not a big conspiracy but a huge **** up by the whole system.
How can the judge allow half of what happend in his court is mindboggling to me.
01-25-2016 , 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Can you conceive of any explanations for that? I mean, ones that don't include "it was added later to cover up his planting of evidence?" I'm sure you can if you try hard enough.
Yes....http://imgur.com/gallery/p1WHknf


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01-25-2016 , 09:34 AM
I am not sure why you are posting that. I am completely in agreement regarding Avery's first conviction and what a terrible job the police did.

I'm fact I agree that many of the police actions in the murder investigation stretched ethical boundaries. That is a far cry from believing Avery was framed by the police department dumping Halbach's burned bones in his yard, his blood in her car, his DNA on her car, her key in his room, the bullet in his garage, etc. etc. etc.

I mean sure I guess it is possible to ignore every single piece of evidence, if you work from the assumption that it was all planted.
01-25-2016 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
I am not sure why you are posting that. I am completely in agreement regarding Avery's first conviction and what a terrible job the police did.

I'm fact I agree that many of the police actions in the murder investigation stretched ethical boundaries. That is a far cry from believing Avery was framed by the police department dumping Halbach's burned bones in his yard, his blood in her car, his DNA on her car, her key in his room, the bullet in his garage, etc. etc. etc.

I mean sure I guess it is possible to ignore every single piece of evidence, if you work from the assumption that it was all planted.
If it's likely that one single piece of evidence was planted, that makes the likelihood of other pieces being planted as well significantly higher.

The key is very questionable. The bullet is also very questionable. Those 2 things make the tampered blood vile/evidence seal and blood in her car much more questionable.

You guys seem to think that it's either Avery did it, or the police did it to frame him. I don't think there's anyone ITT saying the police killed TH to frame SA.

I think a lot of people are saying, someone that had the same motives/opportunity as SA is just as likely to have done it. That the police decided early on that SA did it, and then focused their entire efforts to making it look like he in fact did it.

Or, SA did it, but the police bumbled the whole investigation, and still likely planted evidence, and they shouldn't get away with doing that.
01-25-2016 , 09:54 AM
My biggest problem with half of those evidence is that they are used to support that half assed narative the DA feed us. Theresa was killed in his trailer , avery is a god at cleaning any trace of it, but leave some obvious blood stain in the car and hide it in most ridiculous way. when they find some dna traces they are super bogus and tainted by awefull lab work or miraculously found by some people that were not supposed to be left alone.
How moronic is it that they used some investigator they said wouldnt be used, they didnt even trust them to investigate and got people watching them(why the **** using them in the first place) and those investigator manage to **** up with inconsistant testimony and lack of proffessionnalism using logs.
Labs ****ing up testing on multiple occasion, not following protocoles

How do you want people not to see some conspiracy when eitherit is or half that police department should be fired for beeing too stupid to work on crime scene.
01-25-2016 , 09:55 AM
The blood vial itself was not tampered. The hole is supposed to be there. It's the sketchy tape on the box holding it that is troublesome.
01-25-2016 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
Re bolded: I don't know what that means.
I bungled the wording but still feel the point was rather obvious.

Everyone I have discussed with have felt SA is more likely to be guilty after having done research.

Ie, 50/50 after doc, but 80% likely after research.
01-25-2016 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 Making a Murderer
The blood vial itself was not tampered. The hole is supposed to be there. It's the sketchy tape on the box holding it that is troublesome.
Seal beeing broken and no log of who access what is not even surprising at that point.
01-25-2016 , 10:01 AM
for people who want to have a good laugh : read http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh...burma-myanmar/

it s the making a murder thailand style, the parallels are depressing.
01-25-2016 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush Making a Murderer
I bungled the wording but still feel the point was rather obvious.

Everyone I have discussed with have felt SA is more likely to be guilty after having done research.

Ie, 50/50 after doc, but 80% likely after research.
Would your 80% be enought for you to convict him if you were part of the jury ?
01-25-2016 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush Making a Murderer
I bungled the wording but still feel the point was rather obvious.

Everyone I have discussed with have felt SA is more likely to be guilty after having done research.

Ie, 50/50 after doc, but 80% likely after research.
Who are you talking to?

What is this magical evidence you found after researching? Or is it just ZOMG, he killed a cat once?
01-25-2016 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Revot33 Here is a good summary of MaM by Brian McCorkle. Care to expand on this?

http://www.convolutedbrian.com/the-w...tep-forth.html


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Brian say's it better than I can Revots33
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer

I'm fact I agree that many of the police actions in the murder investigation stretched ethical boundaries. That is a far cry from believing Avery was framed by the police department dumping Halbach's burned bones in his yard, his blood in her car, his DNA on her car, her key in his room, the bullet in his garage, etc. etc. etc.

I mean sure I guess it is possible to ignore every single piece of evidence, if you work from the assumption that it was all planted.
#Reasonabledoubt
01-25-2016 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 Making a Murderer
The blood vial itself was not tampered. The hole is supposed to be there. It's the sketchy tape on the box holding it that is troublesome.
The seal was opened in 2002 with Avery's own lawyers in the room and never re-sealed, except for the scotch tape.

From the defendant's statement on planted blood:

Quote:
In the course of those efforts of the Innocence Project' the former Manitowoc Counfy District Attorney, E. James Fitzgerald , and members of Avery's defense team, and perhaps others, met and opened packages of evidence in the 1985 court file, with the court's approval, to determine what to send out for additional tests. Notations on the outside of the white box containing Avery's blood vial indicate that DA Fitzgerald opened the box at 12:25p.m. on June 19' 2002' and closed it again two minutes later. It is believed that the evidence tape seal was broken at that time so the parties could discover the contents. It is believed that when the vial of Avery's blood was found, the box was simply closed and not sent out for testing as the crime lab already had Avery's DNA profile on record. The notations on the box do not indicate how the box was re-closed, but there does not appear to be another layer of evidence tape placed over the existing broken seal. Instead it appears the box simply was closed with a small piece of (easily removable) scotch tape'.
There is literally no evidence of anyone opening the box illegally and/or stealing Avery's blood.

Yes, there was still the possibility of this blood being stolen and planted. However the EDTA test (which in reality, was much much more reliable than the series made it out to be) rules out any reason to believe the blood was planted.
01-25-2016 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
for people who want to have a good laugh : read http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh...burma-myanmar/

it s the making a murder thailand style, the parallels are depressing.
Indeed, I remember the UK media even saying that these 2 got railroaded, it was 1 of the few times both the left/right tabloids were on the same page.
01-25-2016 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
The seal was opened in 2002 with Avery's own lawyers in the room and never re-sealed, except for the scotch tape.

From the defendant's statement on planted blood:



There is literally no evidence of anyone opening the box illegally and/or stealing Avery's blood.
OFC there No evidence of anyone stealing the blood, but the clerk also said that after averys 2nd trial they had changed procedure so that when the clerk was not there someone would be to take note of who was in the evidence room. I.E THERE WERE NO CHECKS ON ANYONE BEFORE HAND.
Btw did you find Averys rap sheet from 1985 to 2003?


#Reasonabledoubt

      
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