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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-25-2016 , 02:45 AM
In this reddit post you will hear that P.B got calls from GA & reported this to MC, & may have been stalking her when doing so.
Protect & Serve?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._know_that_sa/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSlx...ature=youtu.be
01-25-2016 , 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
I'd say that this post from reddit regarding the civil lawsuit was pretty important.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...y_interesting/

Oski? Is this post fair.
The post is spot on. The author knows his stuff.
01-25-2016 , 02:57 AM
Can Steven's children sue for their father being locked up? For example, if the police just killed him instead, would the lawsuit have continued?
01-25-2016 , 02:58 AM
Unrelated-yes, a bad situation for the cops-yes, but it still makes you wonder.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2459506

Last edited by smacc25; 01-25-2016 at 02:59 AM. Reason: Thanks Oski ;)
01-25-2016 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyRavishing Making a Murderer
Can Steven's children sue for their father being locked up? For example, if the police just killed him instead, would the lawsuit have continued?
lawsuit would have been over. I don't know the WI code on this, but in California, this would not be a assignable claim.

The statutory payout would probably be another matter and I would guess the payout would have gone to his estate.
01-25-2016 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator Making a Murderer
Since you're read his full testimony, why not enlighten us on his explanation for this?
You won't listen, so I won't waste my time. Here's the transcripts for you, look it up yourself: http://stevenaverycase.com/steven-av...l-transcripts/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski Making a Murderer
As I have stated before, as I have not done any research into this case, I do not hold an opinion as to whether he did it, but based only on the show, I believe there is reasonable doubt
And based only on Ptolemy's writings, one would believe that Earth is the center of the universe. But I respect that you admit this.

Quote:
- especially since criticisms of the show (Katz' list of omitted "evidence") have proven to be weak.
I agree that Kratz's list of omitted evidence is weak, and unfortunately it has allowed the lawyers and filmmakers an easy target to attack while avoiding the real issues.

Here is a much better and well sourced list to start off with, along with a rebuttal to MaM's portrayal of the framing conspiracy here and here.

And if you're not averse to reddit posts, here's a scientist's take on the EDTA test, now that we have a lot more information on it.

Or you can choose to remain ignorant and discuss the case based on how it's portrayed in the show, which is a bit like discussing a model of the universe having only read about the Ptolemiac system (I'm not saying you're wrong to do so, I just find it a bit odd).
01-25-2016 , 04:19 AM
The list you linked is super weak aswell compared to the lack of protocol following in this case at the very least.
01-25-2016 , 04:45 AM
No one thinks you're smart for knowing who Ptolemy is.
01-25-2016 , 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator Making a Murderer
No one thinks you're smart for knowing who Ptolemy is.
My mom does.
01-25-2016 , 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
You won't listen, so I won't waste my time. Here's the transcripts for you, look it up yourself: http://stevenaverycase.com/steven-av...l-transcripts/



And based only on Ptolemy's writings, one would believe that Earth is the center of the universe. But I respect that you admit this.



I agree that Kratz's list of omitted evidence is weak, and unfortunately it has allowed the lawyers and filmmakers an easy target to attack while avoiding the real issues.

Here is a much better and well sourced list to start off with, along with a rebuttal to MaM's portrayal of the framing conspiracy here and here.

And if you're not averse to reddit posts, here's a scientist's take on the EDTA test, now that we have a lot more information on it.

Or you can choose to remain ignorant and discuss the case based on how it's portrayed in the show, which is a bit like discussing a model of the universe having only read about the Ptolemiac system (I'm not saying you're wrong to do so, I just find it a bit odd).
LOL, this site uses itself as a source of info.
01-25-2016 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
I agree that Kratz's list of omitted evidence is weak, and unfortunately it has allowed the lawyers and filmmakers an easy target to attack while avoiding the real issues.

Here is a much better and well sourced list to start off with, along with a rebuttal to MaM's portrayal of the framing conspiracy here and here.
Check out PoorSkillz's website's attempt at offering an explanation of Colborn calling in the plates.

Quote:
The car was also found without plates, which had been crumpled and stashed in another car on the Avery lot. If Colborn was in fact looking at the car with plates on, he would've needed to take the step of removing the plates, crumpling them, and storing them in another car on the lot before leaving the car. It seems like an unlikely step to take by a cop planting a car that they want to be found.

Finally, this call was made mere hours after Teresa was reported missing. It would be extremely lucky for Colborn to find the car so quickly, and immediately know that she had last been seen at Avery's and devise a plan to frame him.

- See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/was-evide....0X8kcMFb.dpuf
Yep, he would have had to have been "lucky"

I also like the move of distancing himself from Kratz as we move forward.
01-25-2016 , 05:52 AM
On the Brendan Dassey side of things, one thing I found so sad was right after he "confessed" and he was told he'd have to stay there. His response was "is it just for one day?" or something along those lines. He then proceeded to talk about his school assignments he had to complete.

His lack of situational awareness was pretty astounding, and I have to believe that had he actually gone through a gruesome rape/murder, the gravity of the situation would have hit him hard and he wouldn't have said these things. I'm much more convinced BD is innocent than I am with Avery.
01-25-2016 , 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 Making a Murderer
On the Brendan Dassey side of things, one thing I found so sad was right after he "confessed" and he was told he'd have to stay there. His response was "is it just for one day?" or something along those lines. He then proceeded to talk about his school assignments he had to complete.

His lack of situational awareness was pretty astounding, and I have to believe that had he actually gone through a gruesome rape/murder, the gravity of the situation would have hit him hard and he wouldn't have said these things. I'm much more convinced BD is innocent than I am with Avery.
Yeah I agree. In fact, if you read through the transcripts, it's way worse than that. They are talking to him about how "time will heal" when he tells them he's thinking about his girlfriend that broke up with him. They are asking him about what movies he saw and about wrestling and stuff...it's pretty gross to think the whole time they knew they were going to just toss this poor kid in jail for the rest of his life.
01-25-2016 , 06:02 AM
uhm yea even yeah, he was so sure that if he just said the right things he would be out of there, so after confessing to a chainsaw massacre type of scenario he then asks if he will make it to turn in his 1.30 paper(clock was like 12.45 at that time)

NO awareness of the severity of the situation
01-25-2016 , 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
Yeah I agree. In fact, if you read through the transcripts, it's way worse than that. They are talking to him about how "time will heal" when he tells them he's thinking about his girlfriend that broke up with him. They are asking him about what movies he saw and about wrestling and stuff...it's pretty gross to think the whole time they knew they were going to just toss this poor kid in jail for the rest of his life.
Right. I don't know how they can live with themselves after doing that.

BD is clearly not trying to lie to the police, as he keeps shaping/changing his responses based on the interrogator's leads. He wants to tell them what they want to hear. That's pretty hard to refute looking at the transcripts. If that's the case, why, on several occasions, would he say he doesn't know the answer/can't remember, when he's just going to come out with the info 5 minutes later when they narrow it down for him. Has to be because he doesn't know the answers. You're either trying to lie or you're not. He's not trying to lie. He should have known the answers the first time they ask.
01-25-2016 , 07:04 AM
Interesting and very well-written analysis of the case from ABC News legal analyst Dan Abrams:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...ry?id=36429891

Bottom line, he thinks Avery is guilty but Dassey is innocent. Which needless to say, if true, amounts to an even greater tragedy for Dassey. As Abrams states at the end of his piece:

Quote:
So my opinion: Avery is guilty, Dassey not. If true, that would mean Steven Avery has taken not just one life, but two. By maintaining his innocence and refusing to admit his involvement, it precludes him from credibly clearing his nephew–a possibility that the “objective” filmmakers do not appear to address either. This would also be a far more complicated reality because I believe Brendan Dassey could and should at least get a new trial — a wrong that could be righted by the man somewhat lionized in the documentary.
01-25-2016 , 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
.
Can you help me out Poorskillz? Can you find me SA convictions while he was inside for the 18yrs that he served between 1985 & 2003?
I just can't seem to find anything here & since judge willis said he was 1 of the most dangerous men that had ever come through MC courts I know there's got to be something he done while inside.
And if you cannot find any actual crimes he committed what about crimes against SA while inside since a rapist is 1 of the most targeted ppl, I mean some1 has got to have taken offence against this man's crimes. Thanks.

Note: I Have tried to source this material, but must be looking in the wrong places.

#
01-25-2016 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
In this reddit post you will hear that P.B got calls from GA & reported this to MC, & may have been stalking her when doing so.
Protect & Serve?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._know_that_sa/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSlx...ature=youtu.be
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Interesting and very well-written analysis of the case from ABC News legal analyst Dan Abrams:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...ry?id=36429891

Bottom line, he thinks Avery is guilty but Dassey is innocent. Which needless to say, if true, amounts to an even greater tragedy for Dassey. As Abrams states at the end of his piece:
Did Dan Abrams ever attempt to right the wrong(or write a piece) that happened to the 3 women who got brutally attacked after MCPD let a serial rapist go free?

Did he offer assistance, go after the cops who let this happen or has he done any work in a rape crisis centre at the time or at the present time?

#
01-25-2016 , 07:32 AM
Also Revots33 can you explain why Leut Lenk name is all squished in between other names. Hint this is the day the bullet was found.

http://i.imgur.com/xSk4PD6.jpg

Last edited by smacc25; 01-25-2016 at 07:45 AM.
01-25-2016 , 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33 Making a Murderer
Interesting and very well-written analysis of the case from ABC News legal analyst Dan Abrams:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...ry?id=36429891

Bottom line, he thinks Avery is guilty but Dassey is innocent. Which needless to say, if true, amounts to an even greater tragedy for Dassey. As Abrams states at the end of his piece:
That conclusion and titles are horrible for so many reason.

1 noone can say avery is absolutly guilty. at least not with what was given to us.

2 Avery is in no way responsible for what happend to his nephew, if brendan is innocent the police/DA and BD lawyer are responsible for his wrongful conviction not avery, for the same reason Allen is not responsible for the 18 years avery spent in jail, at no point Avery inculped his nephew, if brandon is guilty Avery got some responsability because he actually made a minor do that crime
01-25-2016 , 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz Making a Murderer
You won't listen, so I won't waste my time.
Hi Poorskillz, I got another piece for you to research, it is regarding the site stevenavery.org
Here's a start, anything else you find is welcomed.

http://youcancallmekarma.blogspot.co.uk/
01-25-2016 , 07:44 AM
3 at no point is the documentary pretending avery is innocent, they say he hasn't been legitly proven guilty
01-25-2016 , 07:54 AM
4 without brendan confession I highely doubt avery would be in jail right now, and yet the author dismiss completly brendan confession.
01-25-2016 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel Making a Murderer
4 without brendan confession I highely doubt avery would be in jail right now, and yet the author dismiss completly brendan confession.
Oh yeah. I'm sure those two people on the jury with manitowoc law enforcement ties would have surely came around.
01-25-2016 , 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25 Making a Murderer
Can you help me out Poorskillz? Can you find me SA convictions while he was inside for the 18yrs that he served between 1985 & 2003?
I just can't seem to find anything here & since judge willis said he was 1 of the most dangerous men that had ever come through MC courts I know there's got to be something he done while inside.
And if you cannot find any actual crimes he committed what about crimes against SA while inside since a rapist is 1 of the most targeted ppl, I mean some1 has got to have taken offence against this man's crimes. Thanks.

Note: I Have tried to source this material, but must be looking in the wrong places.

#
Maybe for unintended reasons said by the judge, but SA was very dangerous to the entire justice system of the county and Wisconsin if he was not convicted.

      
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