If you don't already know there are massive problems with the bullet evidence, you should go back and read the thread.

We have a statement from a dubious 'confession' widely thought to be coerced.

It turns out there was no evidence of Teresa's blood either in the garage or in the house. Most likely scenario is that no crime against Teresa occurred in either location.

Since we know from abundant testimony and phone records that Steven was in and about his home this provides a good alibi for Steven.

Sadly, the chain of possession for this so-called 'evidence' is non-existent. None of the remains supposedly found were photographed in situ and the coroner was blocked by police from conducting a professional examination of the site.

It's not delusional, but I can see why you'd project that onto others.

Yes, unsolved crimes, like Jack the Ripper's or in the Halbach case will attract a certain amount of speculation.

But it's completely true I don't need to put forward an 'alternative theory' to reject a questionable hypothesis.

Yes, if Steven is innocent someone else would be the killer if Halbach was murdered. Glad you are able to grasp this much.

I have already shown the 'details' you mentioned above aren't as damning as you pretend.

The few drops of blood sprinkled in Teresa's vehicle hardly amounts to a 'ton of evidence'.

I appreciate that you think so. There are also facts which tend exonerate Steven which must be acknowledged. Among which is the fact that many witnesses observed Steven on the evening when he was supposedly committing these horrible crimes and none of them saw anything amiss.

Combine with the lack of forensics and we have something.

Combine that with the complete lack of motive, and we are one step further.

Then combine these facts with the direct evidence we have of police to block the coroner from a professional examination of the supposed 'burn site', The involvement by individuals with admitted conflicts of interest in the alleged 'discovery' of key evidence, the manufacture of 'witness evidence' by coercing Brendan Dassey, instructions from LE to Sherry Culhane what she was to 'find', and other skeevy behavior and rational observers can begin to detect a pattern.

Naturally, some theories which attempt to account for all the evidence may not find approval in all quarters.

Knowing as we do the fact that we have an imperfect system of justice administered by human beings with biases and sometimes bad motivations is also something normal people have to keep in mind when presented with an unsolved case.

None of my facts are 'alternate' - they are simply real facts which the Steven-did-it mantra cannot reasonably account for.

My looking 'foolish' in the eyes of Manitowoc Law Enforcement advocates such as yourself is not a worry for me, any more than lookiing 'foolish' in the eyes of Flat Earthers or Creationists.

There is no debate that Teresa was shot in the head at least twice.

No defense expert has ever disputed Culhane's DNA analysis of the bullet, because her analysis was sound.


We also have Brendan testifying at his trial under oath that he and Steven cleaned up a substance that "looked like blood" in an area of the garage on the same night that Teresa went missing.


There is evidence that Steven cleaned both the garage and trailer in the days following Teresa's disappearance.

There is also Teresa's DNA found on the bullet in the garage fired from Steven's gun.

Therefore, the most likely scenario is that Teresa was murdered in the garage, as was the state's theory at both trials.


Pretty much everyone who saw Steven that night saw him and Brendan having a large fire (Steven initially denied this, claiming he instead stayed in his trailer listening to the radio and watching porn). The only person with Steven for most of the night said they murdered her in the garage and burned their body in that large fire. That might be the worst alibi in history.


There was a very existent chain of possession, and it is all documented. Just because the remains weren't photographed in situ, doesn't negate the forensic anthropologist in charge of the case's opinion nor the numerous agents who testified to seeing the bones. There are also photographs of Teresa's bones entwined with the burnt tire wires from the tires Steven used in the fire on Halloween.


The coroner was told not to come because the Calumet medical examiner was in charge of that area of the investigation.


Everything you have said is completely delusional - such is life in an alternate reality of Steven's innocence. Exhibit A:



Because you can't without looking even more foolish, because no reasonable one exists when the facts are taken into account. The cognitive dissonance would make your brain explode.


There was more than a few drops, and even one drop is probably enough evidence to convict. But I am not quantifying the "blood sprinkled" as a "ton of evidence", merely one damning piece of evidence amidst a ton of evidence. Others include:

• a bullet with the victim's DNA on it in his garage fired from the gun in his possession when it was found the victim was shot at least twice
  
• him having a large fire (which he initially denied having) and the victim's burnt bones found are later found in that fire
  
• him seen placing a bag in a burn barrel fire which smelled of burning plastic on the afternoon of the victim's disappearance and the victim's electronics later found in that barrel
  
• the victim's Rav4 found hidden on his property, with the keys to his Rav4 found in his room with his DNA on them
  
• his DNA found on the hood latch of the victim's Rav4 where the battery was disconnected
  
• his property being the last place the victim was ever reportedly seen by anyone

I can go on, but that's already enough to convict any suspect ten times over, especially considering there is no evidence of a fantastical frame-job occurring.



As I've already explained above, numerous people saw him having fires where the victim's bones and belongings were found and the only person who spent any extensive time with him that night claimed they murdered her in the garage and burned her body.


There is an overwhelming amount of forensic evidence pointing to Steven's guilt (I'd guess more than 95% of murder trials) and there was also an overwhelming amount of forensic work that went into this investigation (again, I'd guess more than 95% of murder trials). Even if you ignorantly contend it was all planted (though you can't come up with a reasonable scenario how), you still can't claim there is a lack of forensics.


The motive is Steven has a well-documented history of impulsive anger issues involving women, including several claims of rape and domestic abuse.

Regarding Teresa, according to her co-workers, Teresa was being sexually harassed by Steven on multiple occasions.

It's not hard to connect the dots here. If you need help, ask Brendan.


They "blocked" her because she was the Manitowoc coroner and Calumet was leading the investigation. If she was not blocked, I have no doubt that you'd instead cry foul that the coroner shouldn't have been allowed and thus her opinion is worthless because she's being sued.


Where did individuals admit to having a conflict of interest? By "discovery", you're insinuating these individuals planted everything? What you ignore is that the amount of individuals in on it would then be in the dozens and that there's no plausible scenario for all these items to have been planted in the first place, let alone evidence of it occurring.



That is your opinion that he was "coerced". According to the courts, he was not coerced. Regardless, Brendan's "witness evidence" was not used nor needed to convict Steven.


Those are normal instructions of what evidence to prioritize for DNA analysis.


None of this is evidence of anything, it's just looking for things that look "odd" to you and then crying conspiracy, in the same vein as 9/11 and Sandy Hook truthers. This is why Steven is dying in prison, and why Avery advocates are nothing more than uninformed at best and delusional conspiracy theorists at worst.


No theory of Steven's innocence can even come close to accounting for all the evidence without sounding completely bat**** insane, which again, is why you refuse to put one forth yourself.



Again, here's exhibit A of your delusional belief this case is unsolved, this time with some platitudes of an imperfect justice system thrown in! That America's justice system (along with every other justice system) is imperfect doesn't negate the fact that Steven's guilt is clear.


If you're claiming there's no evidence of how Teresa died, despite indisputable evidence she was shot at leas twice in the head, and that the case is still unsolved you are living in a delusional world of "alternate facts".


Facts support Steven's guilt, things that feel "odd" and "skeevy" to arm-chair experts support a grand conspiracy - regarding flat earthers and creationists, which side do facts support and which side do things that feel "odd" and "skeevy" to arm-chair experts support?


I am merely an advocate for the truth. Which brings me to my final point - I am happy to clear up misinformation for people who are genuinely misinformed.

But then there are other people like you who purposefully remain misinformed because they would rather believe in grand conspiracies (despite a complete lack of evidence) or continue waxing philosophical about a broken justice system (there are valid complaints about the system being broken, but Steven's investigation/trial is far from an example).

Frankly, responding to people like you is exhausting, and the only reason I've done so here is for the other new poster to see how ridiculous the argument for Steven's innocence is. I'll now go back to ignoring your posts, so don't expect further response.

Due to the condition of the cremains we don't know whether the damage was post mortem. It's also not known what sort of weapon caused these apparent wounds.

As everyone knows, the test is unreliable because of the acknowledged contamination of the control sample. It's telling you try to pretend this never happened.

Since the garage was tested, we know that there was no evidence of blood. Another inconvenient fact that you seem to have forgotten.
Having see the crime scene photos I can see there was no Dexter-style clean up.
We have that unreliable test Sherry Culhane contaminated after being told by police to 'put Teresa in the house or garage'. No need to harp on this further.
Since even the facts you cherry picked aren't very strong, it should be clear by now that no one has any idea where Teresa may have been killed.

People were dropping by Steven's place all evening long - there was no indication that Steven was in the middle of a hideous crime. Not excited, not nervous, not angry, not sweaty, not hiding, not covered in blood... Just an average unmemorable night.

You are again relying on your version of the statements coerced from Brendan Dassey, another time you are relying on shaky evidence.
There is a reason why real forensics document their work carefully. The police did not allow that.

There is no compelling evidence that the tires were burned on Halloween.

You seem to like jumping to unwarranted conclusions.

Is that so? Even though other Manitowoc personnel (some of whom were deposed in the looming lawsuit) were allowed free range of the area?

Cool story, bro.

Nothing I have written is delusional - you are projecting your thought processes onto me.

Since you can't deal with the facts I bring up, I suppose you imagine it's easier to attack me.
As I have already pointed out, a ton of dubious evidence makes for a case which is dubious at best.

Others include:
Been there, done that.
Even if Steven had a bonfire on Halloween (and invited people to!) that is not evidence of murder. Even you should be able to figure that out.

If burning trash which includes plastic is a crime, there's tons of other people who should be in jail right now.

Strangely, no one ever reported smelling the unmistakable stench of burning human flesh. No one.

Another inconvenient fact which tends to exonerate Steven.

A vehicle can be parked anywhere, especially on a property with multiple entrances. Strangely it doesn't seem to have been observed by people who would have noticed a nice new vehicle among all the wrecks.

The magically appearing key is another weak link, found by Manitowoc cops who were deposed in the looming lawsuit. If you're going to argue the coroner was legitimately blocked from doing her job, then you have to admit Lenk and Colburn being on the spot is sketchy.

It's also curious that Teresa's DNA was not found on this key or lanyard, which would tend to indicate she never handled either.

The famous 'sweat DNA' was found to be present in amounts (confirmed by scientific experiment) far greater than likely from handling once or twice.

We must also report in this context that Steven has no fingerprints or 'sweat DNA' inside the vehicle.

Kind of tricky to have it both ways.

Others have reported seeing Teresa's vehicle leaving ASY. Which supports the testimony that the vehicle was not at ASY between Monday and the time it was 'found' on Saturday. One witness reported seeing the RAV4 being driven toward the salvage yard shortly before this fortuitous 'discovery'.

Basically, you have a chain of reasoning made up of nothing but weak links.

Yes, wrongful convictions happen, no doubt about that either. Case in point, Manitowoc prosecution of Steven Avery in the Beerntsen case.

As has been pointed out, many people visited Steven during that evening and no one observed any suspicious behavior which would point to Steven being caught in the middle of abducting, confining, raping, beating, stabbing, slashing, choking, shooting, cutting up a corpse, or burning a corpse in plain sight.
I'm guessing that you pulled that 95% figure out of thin air.

I'm 99% certain of that.

Since Steven was never even convicted of rape, or even charged with rape in this case (due to utter lack of evidence), it can be safely concluded this is merely an attempt to add more dubious claims to your already weak case.

Bull****.

Yes, Brendan knows how the cops fabricate a case.

Yet some of the Manitowoc cops were participating - a couple of whom had been deposed in the lawsuit. Your argument is self-refuting.

Instead of indulging yourself in strawman arguments about what you imagine I might argue, try dealing with reality. The change might do you good!

This is why Manitowoc wasn't leading the investigation - this is your excuse for keeping the coroner from doing a proper forensic investigation of the scene.

Again, you seem to be refuting your own cockamamie story.

I'm just following the evidence and letting the chips fall where they may.
Yes, my opinion and the opinion of many respected experts and professionals in the field.

Yet you include [parts] of the so-called 'confession statements' in your list.

Kinda hard to have it both ways!

In a scientific inquiry cops wouldn't be telling the technicians what their findings will be.

If you think that is 'normal' you have been misled.

It is evidence which tends to be exculpatory, which is why agenda-driven advocates such as you appear to be make sure to leave it out of your cherry picked narratives.

I seem to be better informed than your sources.

I'm simply being honest, which in your eyes appears suspicious. If I don't know something I admit it. I don't make up 'facts' as you have shown yourself willing to do.

Once you admit that the system is imperfect, as you do here, then you have to admit that some skepticism is always justified.

Doubly so when police are interested in putting together a case against a fellow they already put in prison once for a crime he could not have committed.

Just randomly accusing people who are better informed than you appear to be as being 'delusional' showcases how weak you narrative is.

The problem with your armchair psychoanalysis is that I am simply agreeing with many legal and law enforcement professionals who find the case against Steven dubious at best.
It wouldn't be a 'grand conspiracy', just a tawdry example of people who act in bad faith as any informed person would already know is far from rare. The fact that you seem compelled to misrepresent what I post is a tell.

I'm sure bending over backwards to apologize for the cops and engaging in pretzel logic is tiring for you. It must take nerves of steel for you to continue to ignore all the evidence which doesn't fit your agenda.

Glad to see this will be the last time I can expect to see you re-posting the same old crap.

Interesting - looks like buckets used to disperse cremains were seized at ASY.

See item 20 on this list.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...le.pdf#page=54

Now who was it distributing around the alleged crime scene?

butnahh



I guess that's it for Dassey

Pretty harsh for someone that thought they were getting out in time for Wrestlemania.

Pretty harsh period, imo. But then again the US justice system is probably the worst amongst somewhat civilized countries.

Not quite sure what to think about Avery's case, but Dassey should never be in jail. I guess it's the consensus here, right ? I don't follow this thread religiously.

Dassey stuff is incredibly depressing. I can't believe that coerced confession footage made it to the higher courts and he wasn't fast tracked to release. Maybe his attorneys took a sub-optimal approach?

There's no unquestioned consensus, but I think more people unreservedly consider Dassey to be innocent than extend the same to Avery.

I agree there's lots of problem with our justice system.

Nah he belongs in prison as he's guilty. Shoulda taken the original plea deal that Kachinsky mooted too, he'd be out when he was 36.

SCOTUS only hears 2% of cases & Duffin, Rovner et al were off base re the facts & law when making their argument anyway, which is why they were reversed at en banc.

He wasn't coerced & he confessed more than once anyway, so it's all good in the hood. Dassey's lawyer Laura Nirider strikes me as quite professional & dedicated as well as rather bright, so I would imagine she took (& will continue to take) any option she sees as potentially viable for her client.

As it stands now only viable option she has is to hope new exonerating evidence somehow emerges & that's not gonna happen. Or she could start all over again in Federal district court according to Aaaron Keller who has been covering the case, but that's very very unlikely to be successful either. He's pretty much done.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...ng-a-murderer/

He confessed to something that didn't happen. We know that his confession doesn't match forensics at all. How does that not matter to you?

He confessed to murder which very much did happen &is backed by forensics as was thoroughly discussed itt already. The evidence phase is long over that ship sailed, all that's relevant is whether or not Dassey was "coerced". He wasn't. If he was clear cut inarguable examples would have been presented already itt instead of the invalid examples & proof by assertion fallacies that were offered instead.
Only thing that matters to me is that justice was done for Teresa & her family despite the efforts of a biased advocacy netflix series to usurp it & it's now over.

Now you know why there's no consensus on this board.

The way Brendan was manipulated is one of the most stomach turning ways LE tried to manufacture 'evidence' in this case.

That the cops have to feed him the 'fact' that Teresa was shot in the head is emblematic of the whole affair.

You sound like an awful person.

'k, Dassey's still guilty though & justice has been upheld. Your argumentum ad hominem style opinion of how you think I sound doesn't change that.

I guess we have a different opinion on what justice means then.

Is corpuse vile linked to the case somehow? Really feels that way

No.
Okay.

Indeed we do. I believe he's guilty after studying the evidence & facts, so justice was indeed done as far as I'm concerned.

You go by what a deceptive & dishonest Netflix doc said & take it at face value, so obviously to you it's the greatest injustice ever in the history of the universe or at the very least you're somewhat miffed.

Yet despite all you murderer advocates chagrin at such an outcome, not one of you can provide any evidence for coercion & certainly not innocence. Nor can you provide any evidence of unfair due process or LE corruption. Just vague generalisations & conspiracy theories & an inability to understand the meaning of words, such as "coercion". But want Dassey free anyways just cuz netflix engaged in a PR piece. Even if you can't justify your position in the slightest.

You people are ultimately bottom line dangerous, quite frankly speaking. Impervious to facts evidence or reason but pure adherents to a bs innocence fraud narrative. Such a blinkered mindset shows utter contempt & disrespect for murder victims as it prioritizes a narrative over everything has potentially very dangerous ramifications for society . I'll take being considered a not very nice person by you & the rest of your fellow populist false conviction chic fan club over such an utterly emotive, patently ludicrous dangerous mindset any day of the week, thanks.

Your murderers are going nowhere. Justice has been done. You people should move on as I'm sure there's plenty of other factually guilty convicted killers for you all to light a candle for as they fervently wait for Netflix to greenlight their tragic story of wrongful conviction etc blah blah, so people like you can swallow it hook line & sinker.

What an *******

he just has a mental illness

I'm not the slightest bit interested in your argumentum ad hominem but only if any of you- be you murderer groupies or simply not very bright people in general- can provide anything to support your conspiracy theories & coercion claims. You can't as this very lengthy thread clearly highlights. Reason being both your little icons are in fact GAF. Stop advocating for murderers, rapists & mutilators.

In your opinion, was the questioning of Dassey by LE standard, acceptable and by the book?