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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

03-17-2016 , 05:29 PM
https://soundcloud.com/real-crime-pr...ing-a-murderer

Good ep, talks about the car discovery
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03-17-2016 , 06:01 PM
No one is a fan of criminal cops, I think we can all agree on that.

It does seem like there is a clear anti-police bias among many itt (and in the country as a whole). Which I suppose helps explain why people are so quick to believe that 2 cops with nothing to gain would risk their careers and freedom to frame the local dirtbag.
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03-17-2016 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
Well if for example they did something like making sure defense counsel is paid the same as the prosecution, had access to the same budget for tests, expert witnesses paralegals interns and junior counsel, their case load were limited in some sane way, and a public defender were an option for everyone regardless of income or assets that would be a start.
Yes, I agree. Only problem is.. That would still eventually lead to a decrease in the quality of defense. Because there would be no way to pay more for a better service.
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03-17-2016 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
1- Yes, I do
2- No, I don't. I think he was involved and helped at the very least in getting rid of the body. Which makes him guilty of murder as well. It makes him an accessory.
3-I don't necessarily think he was lying about that. But it was very clear during the whole process he was trying to get into the least trouble possible and didn't understand what would get him in the most trouble.
4-Yes, bleach and paint thinner can remove dna evidence. And if a low powered .22 caliber gun shoots a nearly dead or dead person in the head there will not be as much blood as you might imagine from movies.
5- What are you talking about? He told police she was shot around 10 times and 3 times in the head.
6- Yes, it may influence him to tell the truth. They also asked him stuff they knew was false to see if he was just agreeing with them.I already posted an example of this but The tattoo on the stomach. They asked if he remembered her tattoo on her stomach (she didn't have a tattoo) and he said no that he didn't remember one. If he was just going along with everything they said, why not this too?
7-What? How can Kratz call him as an eye witness when he no longer wants to testify and says he lied to police? They initially tried to cut a deal with him which he refused after pressure from his family.. Whom I think was pressured by Avery's lawyer.

Anyways, long story short.. You need to address the stuff I posted.

Why was he lying in november about a bonfire? Why did he initially bring up a bonfire and say that they canceled?

What were they spot cleaning in the garage? How come that spot matches his confession and where he says they cleaned up her blood? Why did he initially say "it was just a reddish orange spot and he didn't know what it was" what was he trying to hide?

How did he know which weapon was used to shoot her and where she was shot?
Brendan never deviated from the position that she was naked, raped, there was a violent struggle, and then she was shot.

He also never deviated from the position that there was a lot of blood.

Paint cleaner and bleach may remove some blood, but it can't remove all of it.

His "spots" match the confessions because he knows the place intimately or someone else could have told him. This all came out 5 months after she went missing.
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03-17-2016 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
Yes, I agree. Only problem is.. That would still eventually lead to a decrease in the quality of defense. Because there would be no way to pay more for a better service.
Sweden has a system very similar to this where the Police & Prosecutor investigate the crime at every step & the defense/Public defender does NOT do any investigative work at all & get to review all the evidence once it's all gathered.
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03-17-2016 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
No one is a fan of criminal cops, I think we can all agree on that.

It does seem like there is a clear anti-police bias among many itt (and in the country as a whole). Which I suppose helps explain why people are so quick to believe that 2 cops with nothing to gain would risk their careers and freedom to frame the local dirtbag.
There is pretty much no risk to a cop who plants evidence.

Also lol literally just saw this:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...personal-gain/

Last edited by markksman; 03-17-2016 at 08:20 PM.
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03-18-2016 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt
Brendan never deviated from the position that she was naked, raped, there was a violent struggle, and then she was shot.

He also never deviated from the position that there was a lot of blood.

Paint cleaner and bleach may remove some blood, but it can't remove all of it.

His "spots" match the confessions because he knows the place intimately or someone else could have told him. This all came out 5 months after she went missing.
I disagree that he ever painted a picture that required a lot of blood. Listen to his testimony and yes he did deviate from the position that she was raped in some of his later "guilty confessions" mainly the one with investigators in prison (not okelly but the two detectives)

Paint cleaner and bleach will remove all dna traces. Again, this was a low caliber rifle that was fired to a likely almost dead or possibly dead person.

Who else told him? Who? You are just speculating here. If someone else told him what to say how come as you say "he didn't know what to say" You are being ridiculous now. You are just finding ways to fill in the enormous gaps on your theory.. Here is a question Has BD ever claimed anyone fed him a false narrative before he confessed? His story has been that he was led to confess DURING the investigation. He has never claimed that someone fed him answers before or told him what to say

I know it came 5 months later. This was a 40 acre property. DO you know how big that is? They didn't know where to search so most of the property was quickly searched, aside from SA's trailer. After BD confessed in March they then pulled stuff out of the garage to do a detailed search of the entire garage. What is the problem here?
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03-18-2016 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25
Do you know where we can find the actual depositions? I would like to read or watch them.
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03-18-2016 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
Yes, I agree. Only problem is.. That would still eventually lead to a decrease in the quality of defense. Because there would be no way to pay more for a better service.
why would there be no way to pay for better service? All the rules I outlined were to ensure that public defenders are generally treated equally to prosecutors and that everyone has access to them regardless of income or means.

That doesn't mean that people won't shell out big bucks to get the Strang's and Buting's of the world if they can afford it.
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03-18-2016 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
why would there be no way to pay for better service? All the rules I outlined were to ensure that public defenders are generally treated equally to prosecutors and that everyone has access to them regardless of income or means.

That doesn't mean that people won't shell out big bucks to get the Strang's and Buting's of the world if they can afford it.
That was the problem i was suggesting be avoided. If strang is assigned to joe smith who has no money he is not going to work as hard to get him the best defense possible as he will for someone paying him a bunch of money. I just don't know how you can accomplish what we are talking about.
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03-18-2016 , 12:59 PM
Ah I see what you're saying. The system I'm imagining would have full time public defenders. Presumably top flight defense attorneys would still go into private practice.

I sort of think just paying public defenders the same as prosecution and offering the same budget for expert testimony would go a long way to improving the system. If it costs the government a good chunk of change to bring charges against someone, hopefully that encourages fewer frivolous prosecutions
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03-18-2016 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
Ah I see what you're saying. The system I'm imagining would have full time public defenders. Presumably top flight defense attorneys would still go into private practice.

I sort of think just paying public defenders the same as prosecution and offering the same budget for expert testimony would go a long way to improving the system. If it costs the government a good chunk of change to bring charges against someone, hopefully that encourages fewer frivolous prosecutions
that is an interesting idea.. You are suggesting having a handful of public defenders who work on the same salary as the DA's? Then have people who run their own private practice for the "big bucks"?
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03-18-2016 , 01:43 PM
Yeah pretty much. Basically trying to ensure that everyone has free access to representation that is on the same level as the prosecution. And if you can afford better, great, but the minimum afforded to everyone is at least on even footing with the prosecution.
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03-18-2016 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
Yeah pretty much. Basically trying to ensure that everyone has free access to representation that is on the same level as the prosecution. And if you can afford better, great, but the minimum afforded to everyone is at least on even footing with the prosecution.
In a perfect world, i would be all for this. It would be tough to get states to agree to such a thing as it would be pretty expensive. They'd basically have two teams of lawyers to pay for.
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03-18-2016 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
Do you know where we can find the actual depositions? I would like to read or watch them.
Unfortunately they cost a lot $10k upwards, some people have asked on reddit to start a crowdfund to get them but they are also under the copyright of a TV/Video company.
I been trying to find the Name of the TV/Video company but I lost the link
If you still WANT it Fraley I'll try later.
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03-18-2016 , 05:39 PM
What about transcripts? Would they cost that much?
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03-18-2016 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
What about transcripts? Would they cost that much?
Prob not fraley, a few hundred maybe, the best person to ask about how best to get them is SkippTopp on reddit I posted his details a few pages back & tbh he knows the routine on how best to apply for them with correct procedure's.
https://www.reddit.com/user/SkippTopp

Last edited by smacc25; 03-18-2016 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Link
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03-20-2016 , 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight

My argument is not to have the criminal justice system lean toward the side that favors the accused. I am arguing that we shouldn't make it impossible to convict the guilty, which is what you are arguing against. Even if you don't realize it.
Yes, it is impossible to convict the guilty in law enforcement. We just had the first police officer in the history of Chicago charged with homicide. And this was after a year of the offense solely because the video was made public. The numerous government officials and prosecutors who watched that video did not charge the officer. Why?

The behavior of the Manitowoc County 1985 through 2003 in regards to Avery is wrong. To the point where the Governor creates a bill under the name of Steve Avery.

Regardless of Avery's involvement in Halbach's disappearance/murder, there is no way that anybody from Manitowoc County should have been involved. Even Ken Kratz says that it is critical for perception purposes that there is no involvement. Yet, Colburn and Lenk from Manitowoc County are searching Avery's property over and over and over. And finding all the key evidence.

All the 'bad' behavior does is create doubt in our justice system. Which creates doubt that people that are accused of crimes are guilty or not guilty. A 'corrupt' government is much worse than corrupt individuals. If there are no checks and balances within government to root out corruption, society will eventually turn against leadership. Which will lead to the government becoming even more restrictive or a revolution. Chaos either way. We don't want that.
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03-20-2016 , 07:07 PM
http://wate.com/2016/03/20/steven-av...d-from-prison/

According to Busse, Zellner will show that the blood and age of the blood aren’t going to match up with Avery.

In an exclusive with Action 2 News, Zellner previously said she would be looking at advances in DNA technology to exonerate her client.

Additionally, a claimed DNA expert said that bones recovered on the Avery’s property may not belong to Teresa Halbach.

Lynne Blanahcard of the Stop Wrongful Convictions group says the state of Wisconsin’s DNA expert Sherry Culhane can’t 100 percent prove that the bones belonged to Teresa Halbach, because only a partial profile was obtained.

Ken Kratz, the original prosecuting attorney in the case said these statements raise a lot of questions.

During an exclusive phone interview with Action 2 News on Sunday, Kratz said that during the original trial, the defense never challenged the identity of the bones.

Looks like Sherry(Burp!!! Excuse me) Culhane is getting flung under the bus.

And if true that the AGE OF THE BLOOD does not match the blood of SA then that's the final hurdle for most of the #Innocent.
#I wonder what distant relative of TH they dug up.
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03-20-2016 , 07:59 PM
It would be so hilarious if the bones didn't match up and then an unsolved homicide was linked to SA
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03-20-2016 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25

Additionally, a claimed DNA expert said that bones recovered on the Avery’s property may not belong to Teresa Halbach.

Lynne Blanahcard of the Stop Wrongful Convictions group says the state of Wisconsin’s DNA expert Sherry Culhane can’t 100 percent prove that the bones belonged to Teresa Halbach, because only a partial profile was obtained.


During an exclusive phone interview with Action 2 News on Sunday, Kratz said that during the original trial, the defense never challenged the identity of the bones.

Looks like Sherry(Burp!!! Excuse me) Culhane is getting flung under the bus.
The same partial profiling was used to identify the 9-11 victims. Although it is a partial match, the chances of it being someone else are something like 1 in 111,000,000 or something.
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03-20-2016 , 08:20 PM
besides, we know now it was TH... If not where the **** is she?
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03-21-2016 , 03:38 AM
That was Ken duty 10 years ago instead of providing bull**** theories.
Another theory of Zellner plan is proving that TH left the property while avery didn't because of the call to jury.
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03-21-2016 , 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
The same partial profiling was used to identify the 9-11 victims. Although it is a partial match, the chances of it being someone else are something like 1 in 111,000,000 or something.
The partial profile that SC used in the trial was 6/15 = 1/65,000 & not the 1 in a billion that's been paraded around.
Also the FBI does not use a partial this low in murder cases or Identification cases.

Can you please cite the FBI- 911 dna partial profile's with official data?
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