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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

02-08-2016 , 03:58 PM
Can someone go back in the thread to where I clearly acknowledged the film had bias.

But yes, I do also believe that a lot of that bias is attributed to the fact that one whole half decided not to participate.
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02-08-2016 , 03:59 PM
Certainly seems like the dispatch lady thought the call was routine.

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.
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02-08-2016 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel
You want to do 10 years or plea for 2 years instead, your words against those cops who said they found XXX random drugs on you
That is Ken Kratz argument. Even though this happens all the time.

And you have the kid who would plea to anything. 16-year old, mentally-challenged, being coerced for hours. And then Kratz goes on TV with that "confession" that leaves everyone thinking for sure Avery is 100% guilty. Good luck finding a jury that is unbiased after all of this.
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02-08-2016 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
Certainly seems like the dispatch lady thought the call was routine.
.
coolstorybro
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02-08-2016 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt
That is Ken Kratz argument. Even though this happens all the time.

And you have the kid who would plea to anything. 16-year old, mentally-challenged, being coerced for hours. And then Kratz goes on TV with that "confession" that leaves everyone thinking for sure Avery is 100% guilty. Good luck finding a jury that is unbiased after all of this.
that was one point of the documentary aswell, that DA want a win and dont care much about truth
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02-08-2016 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
Certainly seems like the dispatch lady thought the call was routine.

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.

I agree the call is routine;



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02-08-2016 , 04:31 PM
Finding the car of a missing person is not routine. You would think the dispatch would have done something besides make small talk about speaking Spanish.

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.
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02-08-2016 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prana
It's routine for cops to not write things down? Dude is telling us he would rather call in and ask again and again until he has the plate of an active missing person investigation memorized "in his head" than write it down? Either he's lying or he's a ****ing idiot. It's a toss up as to which imo.
Yeah that's not what dude is telling us.

He's double-checking a plate number to make sure he's got the name, number, model, year, etc. correct. That's it.

The bar for police conspiracies is exceedingly low itt.
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02-08-2016 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
Finding the car of a missing person is not routine. You would think the dispatch would have done something besides make small talk about speaking Spanish.

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.

Which do you think is more of a routine occurrence;

1. An officer calling in to run a plate during a routine traffic stop/having stumbled upon a car etc....

2. The clerk they call into questioning the officer on why he's calling in a certain plate
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02-08-2016 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.
Absolutely false. That completely ignores the "guilt must be proven" part of proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It's backwards. You are saying innocence must be proven.
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02-08-2016 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
Yeah that's not what dude is telling us.



He's double-checking a plate number to make sure he's got the name, number, model, year, etc. correct. That's it.



The bar for police conspiracies is exceedingly low itt.

Actually, he told us specially he doesn't remember making the call, or the specifics of the call;



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02-08-2016 , 04:40 PM
Prosecution: uh, I think he's guilty.

Defense: Maybe not. Maybe someone else did it.

Poorskills: that's just baseless speculation, not reasonable doubt.
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02-08-2016 , 04:41 PM
coldborne on beeing added to the lawsuit :
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...0.pdf#page=163

14 A. I don't know if concern is the correct word, I
15 know I expressed that I didn't have any knowledge
16 of that case. I wasn't a Manitowoc County
17 resident at that time.
18 Q. My question, though, was whether you had concern,
19 the thought crossed your mind, that you might be
20 added as a defendant in that civil lawsuit?
21 A. Yes, the thought crossed my mind that I might be
22 added as the defendant.

And the morons will still pretend that no it was not a concern for him and tell us to read the transcripts
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02-08-2016 , 04:49 PM
As Revots already posted:

Quote:
Q. Mr. Strang asked whether or not it was common for you to check up on other agencies, or perhaps I'm -- I'm misphrasing that, but when you are assisting another agency, do you commonly verify information that's provided by another agency?

A. All the time. I'm just trying to get – you know, a lot of times when you are driving a car, you can't stop and take notes, so I'm trying to get things in my head. And by calling the dispatch center and running that plate again, it got it in my head who that vehicle belonged to and what type of vehicle that plate is associated with.
This is routine for him. It's also why the dispatch takes no special notice of it. It also matches up with Wiegert's reports and testimony.

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.
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02-08-2016 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Prosecution: uh, I think he's guilty.

Defense: Maybe not. Maybe someone else did it.

Poorskills: that's just baseless speculation, not reasonable doubt.

Well, there is all the evidence. I know, it was all planted. Buting and Strang said so.
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02-08-2016 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown
Actually, he told us specially he doesn't remember making the call, or the specifics of the call;
OK he didn't remember it. So what? Do you remember every detail of every phone call you make over a year later?
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02-08-2016 , 05:00 PM
I'm pointing out that you guys saying he was just calling to confirm the plate number given to him by Wiegert is *gasp* speculation.
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02-08-2016 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
As Revots already posted:



This is routine for him. It's also why the dispatch takes no special notice of it. It also matches up with Wiegert's reports and testimony.

Can you link to the part of Wiegert's testimony that talks about Colborn's call with Lynn?

Or are you just saying that Wiegert testified that he called Colborn and gave him TH's plate number?
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02-08-2016 , 05:02 PM
It's routine for him to memorize a license plate and other details of a missing person case instead of writing down the info, then later checking in and repeating what he thinks it is to the dispatch to confirm? It's like a little memory test for him I guess. Assuming missing person reports are routine in that area I suppose.
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02-08-2016 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prana
It's routine for him to memorize a license plate and other details of a missing person case instead of writing down the info, then later checking in and repeating what he thinks it is to the dispatch to confirm? It's like a little memory test for him I guess. Assuming missing person reports are routine in that area I suppose.
I'm not getting where you assume he couldn't have written it down.

Write something down in a hurry. Call later, to verify that all your info is correct. Pretty standard.
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02-08-2016 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown
I'm pointing out that you guys saying he was just calling to confirm the plate number given to him by Wiegert is *gasp* speculation.
What we're saying is based on Colborn's testimony and backed up by Wiegert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown
Can you link to the part of Wiegert's testimony that talks about Colborn's call with Lynn?

Or are you just saying that Wiegert testified that he called Colborn and gave him TH's plate number?
Both in his reports and his testimony, Wiegert says he called Colborn about the missing person.

If Wiegert is calling Colborn about the missing person, we can assume he's giving him details on her, including her car information, instead of just saying "Hey Colby, there's a missing person named Teresa".

In Colborn's call to dispatch he asks to check if the plate matches "the missing person". Since he already has the information from Wiegert, if he saw the car, he wouldn't need to call.

It's much more likely he calls because he wants to make sure it's the right info rather than a vast conspiracy of both malice and stupidity.

A reasonable doubt is not a doubt which is based on mere guesswork or speculation. That's why Steven's in prison.
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02-08-2016 , 05:16 PM
Zellner: "Police reports: Only SA suspect but BIG RED FLAGS on others. Must have to do w/BIG GREEN DOLLARS. #MakingAMurderer"

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02-08-2016 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
I'm not getting where you assume he couldn't have written it down.

Write something down in a hurry. Call later, to verify that all your info is correct. Pretty standard.
Quote:
you know, a lot of times when you are driving a car, you can't stop and take notes, so I'm trying to get things in my head. And by calling the dispatch center and running that plate again, it got it in my head who that vehicle belonged to and what type of vehicle that plate is associated with.
That does not lead me to believe he was checking something he had previously written down. It's just a weird statement altogether imo. He had the information but calling it in cemented in his mind who the vehicle belonged to and the plates associated with it? wat?
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02-08-2016 , 05:35 PM
Here's a good reddit post listing some of the quotes about the anger issues Steven had after his exoneration:

Quote:
Full disclosure: The trial evidence IMO overwhelmingly speaks to Steven Avery's guilt in the death of Teresa Halbach.
But the topic of this thread, is what speaks specifically to Avery's anger issues in 2004-2005, provided by the reports of those who lived with him, worked with him, and dated him, as well as from Steven himself. What follows below are selections from these reports, and then as counterpoint, the portrayal of Steven Avery's attitude and behavior in Making a Murderer.

BRYAN DASSEY
Bryan [Dassey] described Steven as always having a bad temper and it seemed to him that he was getting more angry about the business and activities in the yard... Steven...did not like Earl, and threatened to "kick his ass" because of the turmoil with the business in the yard.
Bryan said Steven ha... him, "He could kill someone and get away with it."

BRENDAN DASSEY
Because some days [Steven] couldn't control his temper, so the whole family told him to go see the people that you go talk to about your feelings and that. And he, he got pissed off and he went for a ride.
[Note, based on Brendan's comment, perhaps Steven was receiving formal counseling for his issues.]

JODI STACHOWSKI (girlfriend)
He told me once if I did leave him, that he'd burn down my mom's house with them and my daughter in it."
I was in a bath, and he threatened to throw a blow dryer in there, and he told me that he'd be able to get away with it.

UNNAMED FEMALE RELATIVE, MOTHER OF GIRL IN 2004 SEX ASSAULT CHARGE AGAINST STEVEN AVERY
The woman said her daughter did not want to talk to detectives because Avery said if she "told anyone about their activities together, he would kill her family," the affidavit said.

EARL & CHUCK AVERY (brothers)
“If you would tell [Brendan] to do something, he would do it. Especially with a manipulative guy like Steven.”
Earl claims his brother, Steven, manipulated him as well. Years ago, when Steven was first sent to prison and Earl was 14 or 15, Steven would call him from his cell block and order Earl to have sex with Steven’s then-wife, Lori.
“Steven was a controller,” confirms Chuck, 51.
[Disclaimer: Note Earl and Chuck might have their own reasons to paint Steven in a poor light.]

STEVEN HIMSELF
[Avery's] [December, 2003] reminiscence with a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter after his exoneration about how he used to sit on a picnic bench in the prison yard and count the jets that flew by is instructive:
"Sometimes, I feel like it’s easier in there [prison]," he said a few months after moving into an ice shanty with its jail-like confines, "some days, just put me back there, get it all over with."
"It ain’t nothing to put on a hundred miles,” he told the same reporter, explaining how he would take a drive in his truck to escape his anger and frustration. "There’s probably too much going on inside my head – brain can’t put it all in,' he said. 'Sometimes it’ll last all day, that’s when I try to stay away from everybody, sometimes I cuss them out, sometimes I just go for a ride."


For a contrasting view, here's the portrayal of Steven Avery in Making a Murderer

KIM DUCAT (Steven's cousin)
The people that were close to Steve knew he was harmless. He was always happy, happy, happy. Always laughing. Always wanted to make other people laugh. I think the people in the outside community viewed him as an Avery. You know, viewed him as troublemaker. You know, "There goes another Avery. They're all trouble."

Based on the above interviews, it doesn't seem the people that knew Avery in 2004-2005 thought he was harmless.

STEVEN AVERY (on phone)
When I left the prison, the anger left. It was gone. It stayed there, behind them gates. It didn't come out with me. I was happy when I got out. I probably was the happiest man on the Earth.

Not according to Steven himself, the anger didn't leave. And not according to those who knew him in 2004-2005.

SOURCES
- Bryan Dassey Interview 02-27-2006 (exhibit 89)
- Brendan Dassey Interview with M O'Kelly - 05-12-2006
- Jodi Stachowski Interview with HLN, aired 01-13-2016
- "Avery assault charges delayed - DA: Halbach slaying charges get priority; alleged victim agrees"
- "Blood Simple," Milwaukee Magazine
- "Why Avery Matters," Wisconsin Lawyer, 03-2011
- Making a Murderer Episode 1
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02-08-2016 , 05:38 PM
If you tell Brendan to do something, like confess, he'll do it.
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