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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-31-2016 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel
Pretty good reddit post about some stuff not mentioned in the documentary on the defense side.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...ft_out_of_mam/

That list is huge , when i remember ken kratz pretending it was biased against the prosecution and how small his list was and most of it had no credibility , it s hilariously to read that.
That list is also way more wrong and misleading than Kratz's. Not going through the whole list, but here's a few examples:

Quote:
Colborn testified that he "roughly" shook the bookend table when the key fell out, yet if you look at the photo, there is a remote and some paper sitting on top and things sitting neatly inside.
He also testified that they placed everything back before taking the picture.


Quote:
William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn't conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery's garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom. (He could only confirm that it was definitely a bullet from a .22 caliber rifle).
This is either untrue or misleading. One of the bullets he couldn't conclusively link, but the other one he could.



Quote:
Jerry Buting: "The other thing that wasn't covered in the documentary is, we presented an expert who's from Canada, and he had never testified for anybody but the Crown, the prosecution, before. He was really a world expert on finding cremains outside and in various locations [where one might] try to hide and dispose of a body. And he testified consistently with what we had found in the literature, which is: to burn a body takes either extremely high heat, or a very long, sustained, moderate medium-high type of heat, and it would be very difficult to burn a body in an open pit — an open fire — particularly to the degree that these bone fragments showed. At a crematorium, for instance, they use extremely high heat, and it still takes several hours. Here, you would have had to continually stoke a fire over, and over, and over for 12, 14, 16 hours — something like that — in order to produce this [type of effect]. And there was no evidence that any fire [like that] had [taken place]. There was a bonfire, but there was no evidence that there was any intense fire like that for such a long, sustained period of time."
This is just false.
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01-31-2016 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5
It was searched prior to BDs statements. The bullet with TH's DNA was found in plain sight.

It's not a stretch that a key was dislodged from that book case. It is a stretch that the first day that Manitowoc personnel do not have an official babysitter that they manage to find that key within minutes of entering a trailer that has already been searched for hours. And it's only the valet key, clearly disconnected from the rest oh and it somehow does not have TH's DNA on it.
The day when they found the bullet fragments was the first day they pulled stuff out of the garage. And both fragments were hidden.
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01-31-2016 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown
I'll assume you have someway of proving the bullet was t contaminated. Maybe running the test with a negative control would be a good place to start. Oh, wait.

Just because the negative control was contaminated with her DNA, doesn't mean other parts of the test weren't contaminated with other DNA. We know she had samples of TH DNA near by.

This is why the negative control is so important.
Ok, but if the contamination isn't the same on both samples.. Doesn't that conclude that the bullet fragment with TH dna wasn't contaminated? The contamination of the negative control is not consistent with the contamination of the bullet fragment. So me personally, I don't understand the big deal here but perhaps you can explain why it matters.
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01-31-2016 , 12:15 PM
Lost, yes.. I would like the best example you can find of police corruption or framing with this much evidence.
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01-31-2016 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
Ok, but if the contamination isn't the same on both samples.. Doesn't that conclude that the bullet fragment with TH dna wasn't contaminated? The contamination of the negative control is not consistent with the contamination of the bullet fragment. So me personally, I don't understand the big deal here but perhaps you can explain why it matters.
the conclusion is that she suck at her job and the chicken she ate for lunch could have been a suspect of the investigation as much as avery with such a pro running the test
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01-31-2016 , 12:22 PM
I think you guys will find interest in this. These were just posted but haven't read them yet.

http://stevenaverycase.com/avery-fam....RBbx0EuF.dpbs

Interviews of the aver family from november by police including SA.
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01-31-2016 , 12:29 PM
http://jobs.aol.com/videos/what-its-...ase/518687575/

They like planting bullets in Wisconsin.
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01-31-2016 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddymitchel
the conclusion is that she suck at her job and the chicken she ate for lunch could have been a suspect of the investigation as much as avery with such a pro running the test
No that's not the conclusion. TH's DNA was on the bullet found in SA's garage.

They had what 89 contaminations out of some 50k tests? You do realize these are human beings not machines.

FWIW she's the same person who conducted the test that exonerated SA the first time. And she had to use the entire sample in that case also. She testified that had the control sample been similarly contaminated with her own DNA in that instance, she would have filed the same deviation request, for the same reason... because the actual evidence sample was not contaminated, and because she had no more sample to conduct another test.

Let's say she had more of the original sample from the bullet, so that she could re-do the test from the beginning. Do you think TH's DNA would no longer be found on the bullet? If you think so, you have a serious misunderstanding of exactly what happened.
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01-31-2016 , 12:51 PM
She is the one that send him to jail in the first place
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01-31-2016 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
I think you guys will find interest in this. These were just posted but haven't read them yet.

http://stevenaverycase.com/avery-fam....RBbx0EuF.dpbs

Interviews of the aver family from november by police including SA.
The November 6th interview with Steven is great.

He describes the details of his Monday and doesn't mention having a bonfire once on that day or the rest of the week.

He claims the last time he had a fire was 2 weeks ago.

He also admits he stopped working at 11am that day, and that this is the first time he ever stopped working early.

He also explains that he doesn't really use the car crusher, it's mainly an outside company that does it or Earl, and sometimes he helps Earl.
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01-31-2016 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
The November 6th interview with Steven is great.

He describes the details of his Monday and doesn't mention having a bonfire once on that day or the rest of the week.

He claims the last time he had a fire was 2 weeks ago.

He also admits he stopped working at 11am that day, and that this is the first time he ever stopped working early.

He also explains that he doesn't really use the car crusher, it's mainly an outside company that does it or Earl, and sometimes he helps Earl.
Good points, why would he lie about the bonfire if there wasn't something to hide about the bonfire?
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01-31-2016 , 01:45 PM
Ms Zellner DID NOT delete her tweets....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lawy...-case-36625478
Looks like some people are taking this seriously.
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01-31-2016 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25
Ms Zellner DID NOT delete her tweets....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lawy...-case-36625478
Looks like some people are taking this seriously.
WHOEVER DELETED ZELLNER'S TWEETS IS THE REAL KILLER!!!!
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01-31-2016 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
Lost, yes.. I would like the best example you can find of police corruption or framing with this much evidence.
K. You find one where the cops had this degree of motive, means and repeated, documented history. Deal?
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01-31-2016 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus
K. You find one where the cops had this degree of motive, means and repeated, documented history. Deal?
None of the cops who found evidence had any motive.
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01-31-2016 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smacc25
http://imgur.com/r/MakingaMurderer/m8TIryD LIKE THIS.
OJ Simpson without a doubt.
Now did you answer my Q's, like show me physical evidence of DB involvement? Or has that photo been altered?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
WHOEVER DELETED ZELLNER'S TWEETS IS THE REAL KILLER!!!!
So you to poorskillz are taking this man's side?
https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/...f&seqNo=113968

I believe that K.K had a drug problem for quite a while before becoming addicted so therefore he was a DA while being a drug abuser, sexual offender but you believe that this did not affect his ability to perform to the best of his ability lol.

At least his ex-wife filed for divorce & won, he then lost his job,car & had to file for bankruptcy because of a 23k bill. LOL

Last edited by smacc25; 01-31-2016 at 02:38 PM. Reason: added ex-wife & stuff
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01-31-2016 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
None of the cops who found evidence had any motive.
CASH I tell Ya'll its the cash.
http://jobs.aol.com/videos/what-its-...enc/519140412/
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01-31-2016 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus
K. You find one where the cops had this degree of motive, means and repeated, documented history. Deal?
Yo Lost, Look at the pdf I just posted and near the bottom you will see that it was alleged K.K forced the woman to have sex. But also these court doc's reveal some interesting stuff.
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01-31-2016 , 02:33 PM
Motive for the cops? Haha. Like that's really necessary.

Cops ROUTINELY plant evidence just to make quotas. Getting a conviction vs. almost no chance of ending up like the guy below is motive enough.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...ticle-1.963021
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01-31-2016 , 02:50 PM
So whatever happened to the Keith Morrison, Investigation Discovery epic MaM counter?

Fraleyight?
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01-31-2016 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
"There are no bones about the fact that the
Office of Lawyer Regulation dropped the ball here," Van Hollen
told the Post-Crescent newspaper in Appleton.
Obviously best quote of the document.

WTF??? They tried to just close the case and dropped all counts against Kratz until a reporter broke the story and they were forced to do something. Then further allegations of forcing sex on women that he had prosecuted in the past by threatening them. His punishment? 6 months of vacation. Un-real. Van Hollen deserves some sleuthing IMO.
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01-31-2016 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
Regarding the bullet, IIRC:
On the bullet, only Teresa's DNA was found, not Sherry's.
On the negative control, only Sherry's DNA was found, not Teresa's.

It wasn't possible to run the test again, it was a very important piece of evidence,
Whether or not the bullet was a key piece of evidence should play no bearing on the scientific process.

Quote:
and it was obvious that only TH's DNA was on the bullet and not through contamination. Therefore, a deviation of protocol was filed.

This is completely legal. Again, you want it to be one way, but it's the other way.
Regarding the bolded, I'll assume you have some way of actually knowing that TH's blood found on the bullet was not through contamination.

Also, I don't think anyone was arguing that it was illegal. We were saying there was a conflict of interest, and the person with a conflict of interest botched the test.


Quote:
Even so, the jury still considered Buting's "asterisks" he put on the piece of evidence, and they still found Steven guilty.
You have no way of actually knowing what they did/did not consider.

Last edited by EfromPegTown; 01-31-2016 at 03:39 PM.
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01-31-2016 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
They had what 89 contaminations out of some 50k tests? You do realize these are human beings not machines.
They're scientists, they're supposed to follow process.

How many of those 89 other contaminations were deviation reports filed for?
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01-31-2016 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
Good points, why would he lie about the bonfire if there wasn't something to hide about the bonfire?

Why would Lenk lie about the time he arrived on scene of there wasn't something to hide about what time he arrived on scene?
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