Making a Murderer - Page 54 - OOTV -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

He also allegedly sexually assaulted his teenage relative, allegedly roughed up Jodi, and allegedly told his nephew Bryan that he could kill someone and get away with it (all 2003-2005).

Still a stretch to convict him without sufficient bases.
All of that is alleged and coming from sources that aren't very reliable wether coerced and/or not very bright

Quote

01-12-2016 , 11:41 AM

#1328

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddymitchel

Still a stretch to convict him without sufficient bases.
All of that is alleged and coming from sources that aren't very reliable wether coerced and/or not very bright

3 different "unreliable" sources makes me wonder if the only sources you deem reliable are those that support Steven.

You know little or nothing about Griesbach, Bryan Dassey, and the unnamed relative, yet you assume they "aren't very reliable" because...

Quote

01-12-2016 , 11:42 AM

#1329

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banana man

When the cop from the other County was asked under oath he stated the key was not there during previous searches

"The November 8 search of Avery’s bedroom lasted approximately one hour. During the search, one of the officers tipped and twisted a bookcase, pulling it away from the wall. Another officer then noticed the Toyota RAV4 key on the floor of the bedroom."

http://www.wicourts.gov/ca/opinion/D...ml&seqNo=70129

Quote

01-12-2016 , 11:54 AM

#1330

MagnumMike357

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 155

Regarding the key. I would like to know why TH dna was not found on the key.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:02 PM

#1331

eddymitchel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,761

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

Because people say stuff and then retract whether they are scared by the police or scared by steven nothing has been reliable and that has been a travesty of justice from the beginning.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:03 PM

#1332

prana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

"So what if the key was planted." Ken Kratz

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:05 PM

#1333

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumMike357

Regarding the key. I would like to know why TH dna was not found on the key.

Yes, I would like to know a reason for that too. Maybe once the trial transcripts are released.

We have to also consider that the key had been touched by the victim before, as it had her lanyard on it. So why wasn't Teresa's DNA on it?

Was it perfectly cleaned by Lenk before he applied Steven's DNA? Maybe. Steven had already been making the rounds in the media claiming he'd been framed though, so it's certainly risky.

Here's an opinion on the key/DNA from someone who works in a forensic DNA lab:

Quote:

3) There are a variety of scenarios to explain these results. However I would find it odd if she were not found at all. I wonder if it was a mixture. Someone mentioned a mixture and assuming she were present, then deducing out the other person. Per labs I have worked at and I'm pretty sure guidelines used at any good lab, you can't assume a person is present if the item collected is not intimate. For example, you can assume a victim is present on a swab from their body. A t-shirt would be stretching it... so a key definitely not. So it was either single source Avery or a mixture where Avery was the major. Avery being the major would make sense if he were the last person to handle it. It could also be her spare key... he could be a shedder and she is not... etc. More info is definitely needed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._to_me/cyfmutk

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:07 PM

#1334

markksman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

I just see the officer shaking the bookcase violently as a distraction so he can drop the key.

Shaking the bookcase makes so much sense. Especially when it had previously been emptied and searched. Avery said, "I am going to burn her bones, phone and other items but let me keep this key, I have the perfect hiding place for it."

Every time one of these ridiculous scenarios come up it just screams "Reasonable Doubt" over and over again. Yet there are many of these individual examples that are just silly when you stack them up it remains lol.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:08 PM

#1335

housenuts

1st Quartiled the 500

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 49,739

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumMike357

Regarding the key. I would like to know why TH dna was not found on the key.

Most logical explanation is the key was retrieved by Lenk. Lenk DNA was on key. It was scrubbed fully clean of all dna, then placed there with avery dna added.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:14 PM

#1336

markksman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Clean of any Dna evidence or any evidence that she was murdered there other than the bullet. What'd he do, kill her somewhere else and just throw the bullet in the garage for kicks? Like its either there was a blood bath in that garage or she was killed elsewhere. How the bullet got there in the latter case doesn't make any sense.

Yes. Avery obviously burned all the bones, phone, purse and personal items but hid the key in the unshakable bookcase and not only recovered the bullet but tossed it in his garage (without getting his own DNA on it). It's pretty clear. If you don't believe me read Reddit.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:17 PM

#1337

markksman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

You don't have to believe the prosecution's exact story to convict someone of murder.

She was, without a doubt, shot at least two times in the head according to the forensic anthropologist Eisenberg.

Which story? The one they used for Avery or the one they used for Dassey?

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:36 PM

#1338

prana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

So there was apparently deer blood in the garage too. He just skipped that.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:43 PM

#1339

Aytumious

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,516

Imagine being on a jury for a murder trial with someone like PoorSkillz.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 12:55 PM

#1340

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aytumious

Imagine being on a jury for a murder trial with someone like PoorSkillz.

So many people here are crying "wahhh the jury was biased because of the media coverage", yet these people know Steven's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt because they watched a Netflix doc about the trial... making them exactly the type of people who should not be on a jury to begin with.

Anyone else see the irony, or am I taking crazy pills?

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:06 PM

#1341

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Steven's filing a motion for bond and new exhibits! Let's see what he's got!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...16_motion_for/

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:27 PM

#1342

RichGangi

Laughable false & highly douchey

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

So many people here are crying "wahhh the jury was biased because of the media coverage", yet these people know Steven should've been found not guilty because there's reasonable doubt because they watched a Netflix doc about the trial... making them exactly the type of people who should not be on a jury to begin with.

Anyone else see the irony, or am I taking crazy pills?

FYP.

Manitowoc police being on that property and finding key evidence is enough reasonable doubt alone, never mind everything else.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:31 PM

#1343

TheBob

adept

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

Think about how much more difficult it should be to be basically certain someone is guilty vs having any kind of reasonable doubts that they are. Most people aren't claiming that they're sure that he's innocent but rather that the police are corrupt, he didn't seem to get a fair trial, and/or that the trial was full of things that should give SOME kind of doubt about his guilt.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:34 PM

#1344

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichGangi

FYP.

You realize that's the same thing right?

Quote:

Manitowoc police being on that property and finding key evidence is enough reasonable doubt alone, never mind everything else.

LMAO

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:39 PM

#1345

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBob

Most people are claiming they're sure of their verdict without seeing the actual trial.

No one has seen the actual trial, they've seen a documentary trying to convince people it's an unfair trial and taken it as gospel.

There's no actual proof the police were corrupt in this case. It was used by the defense because that's the only thing you can do when all the evidence points to you is say they planted the evidence. Steven Avery was using it as his defense before they even charged him.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:41 PM

#1346

RichGangi

Laughable false & highly douchey

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

You realize that's the same thing right?

LMAO

No, it most certainly is not.

Glad you're amused.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:46 PM

#1347

RichGangi

Laughable false & highly douchey

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

PoorSkillz, simple question: Given what happened in the first case, you have no problem whatsoever with the Manitowoc police being at this scene and finding key evidence? Even though they were supposedly staying far away from the case due to just such an issue? It does not matter that there is no proof of tampering. Two words: reasonable doubt. That's what you're missing here.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:50 PM

#1348

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Please explain the difference then between:

"yet these people know Steven's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt"

and

"yet these people know Steven should've been found not guilty because there's reasonable doubt"

I think both are the same thing and equally dumb when these people haven't seen the full trial.

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:53 PM

#1349

PoorSkillz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,447

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichGangi

Do I think it was smart?
Probably not, but also depends on the resources, considering the main goal was finding a missing person on a 40 acre property. I'd also like to see the reasoning for it at the trial.

Do I think it was illegal?
No.

Do I think you can't find a man guilty just because of this?
LOLNO

Quote

01-12-2016 , 01:57 PM

#1350

Louis Cyphre

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 11,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorSkillz

The first sentence can be interpreted as "people are certain beyond a reasonable doubt Steven is [not guilty]" while the second sentence means "people are not certain he is [guilty beyond reasonable doubt]".

Quote

Page 54 of 542

First

4 34 44 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 64 74 104 154 254

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 54 of 542

First

4 34 44 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 64 74 104 154 254

Last