I never really considered that a betrayal. I think Tyrion knew before he asked Bronn what Bronn's answer would be, but at that point why not ask anyways?

Bronn fighting the Mountain would be incredibly stupid. Only a Dornish god among men with the sun on his side would ever stand a chance.

Well Cersei gives him a highborn wife and he becomes a ser/sir in return for not fighting.

That is just to ensure that Tyrion stands 0 chance of persuading Bronn, Tyrion probably had a slim chance of convincing him otherwise. I don't think the chances were very high to begin with. I don't think Tyrion thought it was a betrayal either, even if he does somehow convince Bronn to fight for him it results in both them getting killed over 90% of the time most likely.

I also get the feeling that when Tyrion flies his dragon back to Westeros they'll be like Calvin and Hobbes again.

I argued this above, but I think TV Bronn will make a much bigger betrayal than book Bronn (who still named his son Tyrion right?).

Bronn in the TV show I think has already turned on Tyrion/conspired with Cersei but we'll see. it's also true he may not have had any good choice

men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night

I think it's Varys who doesn't like Shae go. Would love it the show proves my crackpot theory, but it's pretty unlikely.

Does Bronn know anything at all about Tysha? I'm just thinking if in the show, Bronn's view of Shae and Tyrion is a lot like how the relationship was depicted in the books. And he legitimately doesn't know what it means for Tyrion to get Shae out of King's Landing (in the show's setting)

Pretty sure they discuss Tysha in the camp before battle in s1.

I'm getting the sense that Gobbo is struggling with what is appropriate to post in the other thread.

Strange, it's such a simple concept.

I think the exact opposite. He will not get chance to fight the mountain as the viper volunteers first and he will just work for Jaime after Tyrion escapes because he knows Jaime helped him run.

His minor betrayal will be telling Tyrion he is staying with Jaime instead of leaving to Essos with him.

I think the show will keep him as a hero that the audience will like, he won't completely screw Tyrion as GRRM would have him do.

It would be a pretty poor decision to have Bronn present to be able to refuse to go with Tyrion when Tyrion Jaime and Varys have their powwow in the dungeons.

Also think that Bronn refuses Tyrion the same in the books, that makes it look more hopeless for Tyrion and adds more to Oberyn's offer.

hmm. do you think the show portrays characters in more gray terms than the book, or are they more likely to create more standard villains and heroes?

I think Jamie by this point in the book is very easy to get behind, and it's him who refuses Cersei which sort of cements it for the reader. in the show for some reason they reversed this, I think to try to keep Jamie more of a villain?

For the majority of the population analyzing the walking dead for an hour after it just aired is a good mental stimulus. Does that mean its a good ***** idea for anyone with half a brain? Basing anything related to mental perception on the general population makes absolutely no sense when were discussing a work of art as complicated as the asoiaf books. Theres some pretty big geniuses that have read the books 4-5 times and they're still finding some clues.

Have a pretty limited sample size, but the show watchers I know are team Jamie for sure.

edit: Ever since the bath scene with Brienne.

Jaime is going to be a crowd favorite no matter what.

I think the Boltons have been moved into more the villain area (not that they aren't in the books) so that tv audiences have someone they can actively root against at all times.

Yeah, in the show, the via dolorosa Jaime went through in the course of his capture and return (also lacking the comic relief of his posh cousin) 'cemented' the sympathies of the audience way earlier. At this point, every little bit of suffering you add to it, whether it's Cersei's rejection or Tyrion slapping him, the more he is loved.

I think the reason they had her reject him and also do so before Joffrey's murder is that they don't want to take away from the intensity of what it means to her that her son is dead. It might seem odd if in the next episode they had her come to him wanting to ****. And also they might not be able to adequately portray why he rejects that desire.

Obviously the book can emphasise Jaime's indifference about Joffrey's death by describing his thoughts, the show can't do that, so Cersei's rejection sort of comes to explain why he goes on to help Tyrion against Cersei's wrath. Furthermore, when Tywin disowns him, in the book, he becomes absolutely fed up with his father's and sister's scheming and planning, and just wants to be honorable like Brienne or the heroic King's Guards before him. Making all his thoughts explicit in this regard wouldn't work, due to Tywin's authority. Additionally, Jaime's late arrival in the book also makes him more tired and disillusioned in the rejection scene. In the show, he still doesn't know that he doesn't give a **** about Joffrey and it is still not apparent that he'd prefer (the impossible folly) of sincerity and openness to playing the game. Wasn't all that the subtext why he rejected Cersei, when she came to Jaime asking him to convince Tywin to let her stay in the small council, and then reached for his dick?

Jaime I think is a good guy in the show and the reactions to him by viewers are reflective of this. Jaime should be seen as a monster with all we have seen him do. But on the other hand (pun intended) his treatment after the Boltons caught him made him the changed man archetype, where they can draw a specific turning point that lets them ignore prior crimes. This will be further emphasised when he frees Tyrion and confesses his prior betrayal.

Jaime was a bad guy, then was a grey character but he is definitely a standard hero now, he ran the entire spectrum.

I am not sure if this is intentional or it is just how it works but its natural for viewers to see everyone in a very simplistic binary way. TV tends to polarise characters and generally in a positive direction if they are a main character. Viewers want to mix up who they like for who they should like because this is basically how TV has always worked with the two ideas being interchangeable.

Pretty sure the book scene in the kingsguard tower is supposed to cement that Jaime is now completely changed and is from there on out supposed to be more of a hero than a villain.

what did they delete from the other thread? what did gobbo say?

I'm not sure if there was more but IIRC they were discussing Little Finger and weren't sure if he's highborn since they knew he had designed his own sigil. Gobbo explained that he is indeed highborn and it's normal for someone to design their own coat of arms when they're knighted or made a lord. If something was written after that I did not see it.

Just searched my name and saw this post. Only reason I knew the correct spelling was from the GOT tv series wiki page, jack ass.

Only time I will be posting in this thread.

lol

@RBK,

I would have thought that a good school like Berkley would have taught that perfectly logical people reach different conclusions when they start with different viewpoints. So the fact that you would imply that reaching a different conclusion is a function of a failure of logic rather than acknowledging it as the result of applying the same logic to different premises arising from different cultural backgrounds could be seen as a manifestation of intellectual dishonesty. But I rather think it is more likely just another sign of your own insensitivity to the impact of cultural difference.

KansasCT's response was much more apt, if no more friendly.

My comment about the illiteracy of the average American was not intended to include you personally. You would never be mistaken for average. I hope you don't intend to deny the copious amount of evidence of the low level of general literacy among Americans. Compared to people in other English-speaking OECD member countries, Americans rank dead last.

Berkeley

n dey don't teach us nuttin weez just be watchin dem foosball games on da magic box.