I think Dany not invading KL will be true in books as well, pretty much for the same reason as in the show. (to not be seen as tyrant, but as true heir to the Iron Throne).

I know it's fun to think that they're just all dumb, i get it. But I'd imagine the same sort of stuff that crosses our minds crosses theirs. They could get away with just simple justifications if they tried to just a little. Think it's just a matter of them truly not giving a single f what the non masses think.

I think what crossed their minds was

1) we need to find a find a way for the White Walkers to get past the wall
2) we need to do it fast
3) zombie dragon would be amazing!

and that works for 95% of the audience. the fact that it means that without the zombie dragon the White Walkers would have done (????) is irrelevant to most of the audience

We know from the Night King touching Bran in a vision, he has some kind of green seeing power as well. Thus he might have seen that if he just waited, an undead dragon would fall into his lap. This might actually explain why it took them so long to get from Hardhome to the wall; they were just waiting for their dragon.

Of course, this would mean that Jon et al. are idiots for not realizing that the Others pose no threat as long as the wall stands. But really, is that such a big leap to make?

They didn't just go from Hardholme to the Wall, they went Hardholme >> Three Eyed Raven Tree/Cave >> back down to Eastwatch.

somehow, I didn't realize last week was the season finale.

Isn't there a mythical horn which can bring down the wall in the books?


Stormlight just isn't gritty enough, I don't want anyone to get raped but it should be a possibility, never going to happen in SL. The whole thing feels like it could be fixed by the power of friendship.

Maybe... mythical horns aren't always real ldo. But then again it is a fantasy series with dragons and teleportation, anything is possible.

Alt Shift X has a video on the Horn of Winter if anyone is interested.

Also, something I just realized is that the Winds of Winter cover will apparently look like this:



Another phrase meaning to blow or sound a horn is "winding the horn". Seems suggestive.

As an aside, reminds me a bit of another fantasy series I've read by Richard Morgan, the titles are "The Steel Remains", "The Cold Commands" and "The Dark Defiles". When you see the titles originally, you think the last word of each is a verb, but after reading the books they all turn out to be nouns. The series is worth reading if you like dark fantasy, although not up to his best work (the scifi noir Altered Carbon, being made into a 10 part series by Netflix right now).

i don't think jon and dany are a lock to hook up in the books and if they do it's gonna be WAY more ****ing complicated than how it was in the show ldo

Also if grrm follows through with burning shireen in the books i will fight him irl

I think shireen gets burned by mel at castle black. Possibly to bring back jon.

No chance that stannis does it.

ok that makes sense, as long as stannis doesnt do it.

Where do you live in China btw/why? I'm teaching in the suburbs of seoul for the next year or 2.

I'll send you a pm.

And yeah I thought Stannis doing that was character assassination in the show.

I wouldn't rule it out completely in the books but some massive stuff would have to happen and it would have to be entirely different. The writers have hinted that it was one of the things they got direct from GRRM but I am sure they missed the point or didn't get the whole story in some way.

how safe is this thread? I know season 7 script leaked a while ago was it discussed here? Will the season 8 script eventually be spoiled here?

yeah, I read that there were 3 major oh **** moments grrm gave the showrunners to do in his outline. One was Stannis buring Shireen. One was the meaning of Hodor. And the third is "at the end".


It was certainly an oh **** moment for me. Was furious. I hope it goes down differently in the books.

No spoilers are discussed here. The "TV spoilers ITT" is a hangover from when the books were ahead of the TV series. Someone should probably change the title actually.

Giving The White Walkers the ability to see the future and make this the explicit reason why they futzed around for so long opens up other cans of worms. One, you need to be careful about your time travel rules and I doubt the writers really wanted to go there. Two, it means they can tell the future but since (we assume) they lose the war... How does that jive? Feels weird that magic demons with a massive army who can see the future still lose. And three, it means introducing the white walkers as rational actors / communicators and that's a whole other set of rules they haven't really come up with. Their language, etc.

I think it's far easier to have this all be happenstance and hope the audience doesn't overthink it

Yeah the Night King can't see the future, he's just a scary powerful villain, that's overreading. Bran can't even see the future.

I actually think this may be different in the books. I *think* greenseers have the ability to see the future, or at least get prophecies. Not sure, but I think this is what the 3 Eyed Raven tells Bran "you will fly".

in the show, it's unclear. White Walkers being *created* by the Children also feels like a show only thing.

Yeah I agree. In the books it seems like Bran will be able to see the future. It's far more likely to be small glimpses of the future rather than knowing the outcome of every possible decision made.

The NK saw it in the ice, for the day is bright and full of terror.

I would think WW acting on their own prophesies/visions makes far more sense.

It doesn't seem outlandish to me that they could see some* things in the future, which would make the waiting for a dragon thing more plausible. I don't think Jojen could see everything at will. Even the hound saw a vision in the flames, something of that nature doesn't seem that absurd for the NK. Although the show won't bother to mention anything like this, and it's probably best that they continue to take the strat they have and blow off these things, because I'm sure they'd **** it up if they tried.