[QUOTE=DeuceSeven;45507689] this for sure.

Serious question:

Is the reverse time travel thing something that's already been revealed in the show, or is this a comic convention you all know about? Clearly Wells can see into the future, but I don't remember any precedents in the show regarding the ability to go back in time. I guess I could have missed that if it has been revealed. If that already has been revealed, it would certainly make several things much more plausible.

Based on what we've seen so far, CMAR's road seems a very reasonable assessment of where they're going.

After reading what someone else said about Eddie (Doc T maybe?) having some of The Flash's powers transferred to him during that scene, that also makes a good deal of sense. I think they've intentionally left both doors open, but don't think the Eddie thing would relate to anyone who hasn't read the comics. Since I'd be surprised if people don't pretty close to unanimously hate the character, they've done a bad job of setting that up, other than the hate part...lol.

technically I don't think there has been any mention of time travel, except that it 'can be possible' with the tachyon device that Wells now has. We do know, as you say, that Wells knows the future, but this could simply be a machine that tells him the future, he doesn't necessarily need to be a time traveler.

In fact, something caught my attention in the last episode. When Barry and Wells met with the owner of the lab that got broken into, she said something along the lines of "Wells trying to help? That doesn't seem like him" and he gave something of a smirk. The interaction between the two suggested that they've known each other and been competitors for a long time. Ofc Wells could have came back from the future a long time ago for whatever reason (maybe he's trapped in the present) and built up a rapport, but that scene kinda made me think he's not from the future.

Anyway more to your point, coming back in time hasn't already been revealed, but there's pretty strong evidence to suggest it will be:
-two speedster's being present at Barry's mom's death, one of them strongly likely to be the Flash
-Well's having knowledge of the future through Gidian
-Tachyon device coming into play
-strong possibility RF is Eddie from the future suggesting RF would need to come back in time

In the comics, Reverse Flash is a time traveling villain with super-speed - He's been around since the 60's under a couple different variations. Obviously they could go a completely different way (which would generally be a very good idea since nobody, especially on tv, can write a time travel story that isn't ****ed up).

Additionally, there was a recent Event Crossover called Flashpoint where it's revealed that Reverse Flash killed Barry's mother. Barry goes back in past, is successful in preventing this and it completely screws up the timeline (think Star Trek mirror universe - kinda). Flash fixes the timeline, but in doing so reboots continuity resulting in The New 52 marketing push of the last few years.

Geoff Johns wrote the Flashpoint comic book story and he's a writer/producer on the show. So they're clearly using that as "inspiration". How closely they follow (unlikely they reboot the DCTV universe but all this could be an explanation for all Arrow/Flash differences with the standard DC universe) or how much they swerve is anyone's guess.

My deductions are based on fitting together the comic book and what's been happening on the show.

Yeah I think it's 100% to be time travel related, but I also don't think it matters that the main (non comic reading) audience doesn't "get it" yet because when it is officially revealed it'll be a "ZOMGWTFBBQ??" moment for them.

really? you're saying someone that doesn't read the comics will be 100% taken aback when time travel is introduced? As everyone has been saying there have been pretty obvious clues.

Hell even someone who knows anything about Science knows that the faster you travel, and approaching the speed of light, time travel is possible

One of the most interesting foreshadowing clues evidently has been the speed "trails". It's now very obvious that two people were at Barry's mom's murder. Until last week, wasn't The Flash's trail red (haven't gone back to check, but I always seemed to remember it being red)? If so, why did it change to yellow this week (and Reverse Flash was red)? It happened too many times to be a mistake, so both my wife and I were curious about it (she thought his trail was red, as well, so it would be interesting if we both have it wrong...lol).

No, both in the show and the comics it's always been yellow for Flash (although in the show it's sometimes more like orange, but never exactly red) and red for RF. The Flash logo also consists of a yellow flash, and the RF logo of a red one (hence, Reverse Flash).

What I said is perhaps the show RF is a collection of different powers contained within someone (presumably Eddie). I didn't say a transfer to Eddie had taken place yet.

And no, time travel hasn't been shown on screen but it is implied given RF killed Barry's mom.

As I said in the shield thread, just because something is obvious to you, that doesn't mean it is obvious to everyone else.

People in OOTV often make the mistake of thinking that because we discuss and dissect the most subtle details in these shows, everyone else who watches does the same. Most people just watch each week and wait to be spoonfed the explanation when the "reveal" occurs.

I'd set the o/u of people who have even considered the possibility that RF is from the future at 25% and I'd take the under.

Note that Doctor Wells showed up like the very next day after Barry's mother was killed, implying strongly he travelled back to that date and has lived the rest of his life so far up to this point with seemingly all of it being about creating then helping The Flash.

I watch shows very closely, just watched the most recent episode, and came to this thread precisely because that midseason finale completely lost me.

So is the theory that the RF and the wheelchair guy are the same person, like Wells travels back from 2024, as the RF, after somehow stealing The Flash's powers? That's what I'm piecing together after the fact.

But that doesn't explain why Wells can do the voice already. If he can do the voice he's already superfast.

Wubbie, for people who haven't read the comic, I'm fairly sure I'd put the O/U at 2% of people who think RF is from the future and traveled back. They've barely even begun developing that character. The only thing I think we're being led to believe right now is that RF is Wells. If they wanted it to be ambiguous they wouldn't have had him do the voice.

If the character is able to move faster than the speed of light (which Wells said the Tachyon or whatever it's called can enable), then he obviously could have gone through the field to talk back and forth without being noticed (I also speculated the field didn't work, don't know if that's true). Based on the last scene, I think the assumption we're supposed to have is that Wells beat himself up, but I'm not really sure anymore. I'm even more unsure about it after reading the thread.

Baobhan, I just went back and looked at a previous episode, and whenever we see long shots of the flash going through the city it's a red streak (the photo on the laptop was red, and Eddie even said something like "that red streak?"). In the long shots last week, I thought it was yellow. However, it's clear that in the closeups that it's a yellow trail from The Flash. So, it's possible I was only talking about the overhead shots of the city, and not the closeups, where the trail look is less memorable. And now I don't remember if The Flash's overhead shots were red or yellow last week.

If we base this entirely on the prexisting comic book storyline - He already has speed powers before he travels back in time to confront the Flash. And in the tv show we already know he's faking the wheelchair so no reason he couldn't be hiding super-powers as well.

In the comics he's dependent on the Flash's existence for acquisition of his own powers - His powers are spun off from Flash's (details aren't really important here). So he has a perpetual conundrum, if he destroys the Flash he'll never become Reverse Flash. It's essentially a "Can you go back in time and kill your grandfather before you father is even born?" type deal. Or remember "You made me! I made you!" from Burton's Batman? Same idea.

In the TV show, we've seen that Wells is monitoring the future and trying to ensure there's a Flash - when Flash's powers are siphoned off a couple episodes ago, Flash is gone from the future and Wells ****s a brick.

Either one or both of two things are going on here:

- Wells came back in time to **** up the Flash. Only after he killed Flash's mother did he realize he'd screwed the pooch and the resulting paradoxes threaten his own existence. He may be trapped in the present because his future doesn't exist anymore. Or it's all part of the same plan for some reason.

- Something very bad is going to happen in the Future (this is evident in the "unchanged" future Wells is monitoring) and he's come back to ensure Flash is around to face it. (This may mean he's a hero, villain or anti-hero).

Like I said, it's basically impossible to write a time travel story that isn't complete ****. Certainly no confidence a network tv show can do it. I expect we'll eventually get an episode with a ****ton of exposition and monologuing explaining all this.

Nunnehi,

my theory (that I just come up with as I type ) is that until the introduction of RF, they intentionally gave Barry's tail an orange/red touch to create suspense without revealing this major story arc. No one paid close enough attention to notice two different tails when Barry's mom was killed, it just looked like one - his own.


edit: Scratch that, they mentioned/showed the yellow suit, didn't they? Idk.

Wait so are you saying that Wells(wheelchair Wells) is himself a time traveler? I thought the implication of the end scene was that he was creating the yellow suit for his future self to come back and kill Barry's mom.

Time travel stuff won't surprise the audience because they've set it up with the future newspaper, but an actual character being from the future would be a big twist.

Huh?

In response to the poster who talked about the voice. Just because Barry uses super speed to adjust his voice doesn't mean Wells did the same at the end or that RF is using super speed to adjust his voice. It could be a machine ala Scream.

You guys are forgetting that RF has to be related to (or is a future version of) Eddie. They made a big deal of him not harming Eddie in that scene. That has to mean something.

Maybe yes, maybe no.

And it wasn't that big of a deal.

If they follow the comics, then yes. If they don't follow the comics then...?

I think the implication of the final scene is that he needs a new time machine - He's been "stuck" since he killed Barry's mom. This could be because his original time machine got broke (fight vs Flash while attacking Flash's mother) or because he lost his time travel ability - In the comics, Flash has long been able to travel through time and other dimensions, usually with the help of the "cosmic treadmill" - very similar to what STAR Labs has been testing his speed with.

Or he may have grabbed it preemptively, to prevent anyone else using it (probably the biggest danger to a time traveler is another time traveler)

How/why else would Wells be able to monitor the future in his secret room?

My understanding of that scene, which is clearly wrong at this point, was that wheelchair Wells is present timeline Wells and Yellow Suit guy is Wells from the future, and the tachyon thing was present Wells maintaining the timeline so he can come back from the future.


Man I liked these CW shows a lot more when they were fun little comic book stories set in a universe where everyone looks like a model and every episode involves solving a crime of the week.

Now Arrow is unrelentingly bleak and depressing, and this show is requiring me to do homework? That's not what I signed up for imo. People ITT who seem like they know what they are talking about are saying Eddie is the guy in the Yellow Suit(or maybe guy in yellow suit's father), and as a non-reader that just completely loses me.

If wheelchair Wells is from the future, where is his younger self? Unless he's from far enough in the future that he hasn't been born yet, but then what's the deal with the 2024 newspaper?

How would he know about anything that hasn't happened yet? Where would he get the future newspaper? How would he know he has to set his future self up with a time travel device?

In the comic book Reverse Flash's real name is Eobard Thawne. Which is very similar to Edward Thawne. That's the entire basis of Eddie=Reverse Flash.

But, IMO, it's much more likely Eddie is RF's father/grandfather/etc.

Not born yet. Or Wells is Eddie's future self. We don't know yet.

Either Wells is Eddie. Or Wells is a decedent of Eddie. Or Wells is trying to stop RF (which seems unlikely at this point except he may be trying to correct/prevent his mistake).

In the comics, RF is from the 25th century. So the 2024 newspaper may be a historical document to him and only after he destroys Flash he realizes he needs Flash alive to deal with that catastrophe so he's been spending the series trying to correct that error (maybe he got the new time travel device to go back again and prevent himself from making that mistake).

Given that there have been a couple scenes of elocution how everything Barry has done up to that point has been about finding his mother's killer and clearing his father it could be that Wells/RF needs to make sure she stays dead and Flash may have to face a, "City on the Edge of Forever" dilemma where he has to let his mother die to ensure there's a Flash around to stop the coming MacGuffin.

So, is it possible RF could be Eddie/Iris's kid?

it's possible for RF to be Olliver Queen/Felicity's kid

so yes