Iirc there was actual reason for the writers to think S4 could be the last when they were writing. Either way Gilligan said that they wrote S4 in a way where it could be an ending for the series, but doesn't have to be.

Obviously the last season will not be about redemption for Walt, but I don't see why I should hate Walt right now. I still think his most evil act to date is letting Jane die and I hated him for it when it happened, but he seemed to regret that decision at least at some point, and wished he could take it back. The rest what he did was just rolling with the punches. You can argue that poisoning Brock was unnecessary as well, but at that point his family had gotten into danger and knowing Walt he was probably sure the kid would not have lasting damage from the poisoning.

Didn't know that, I'm surprised. Figured future episodes were a lock when they were writing s4. I would have been pretty disappointed had they ended there simply because the Hank/Walt storyline would have felt so unresolved and because I don't think our lasting image of Walt should be that he "won." I always liked the s3 ending more than s4 because I enjoy the show more when things are spiraling out of control. The "Crawl Space" maniac laugh is the high point of s4, imo.

Dying is far too easy for Walt. He needs to live. And he needs to lose *everything*. Walt Jr, Skyler, the baby, Jesse, his money, his glory. Maybe leave him in some crippled state like Tio as well, but unable to escape or even kill himself. That's what he deserves and hopefully gets.

Don't want to go into some big rant but I massively disagree with all of this. Obviously Jesse is guilty of some horrible things but it's pretty short-sighted to say he's 'basically just as bad as Walt'. He's been looking to Walt as a surrogate father the entire series, and Walt has continually pushed him down a darker and darker path. Jesse has never sought out wrongdoing the way Walt does - indeed, he's shied away from it many times. I think part of Walt's inevitable fall needs to be his failure to take Jesse down with him.

The biggest difference between Jesse and Walt is that Jesse knows he's doing wrong while Walt tries to justify it and make himself father of the year. Jesse basically explains this in Problem Dog, where he realizes he is in the wrong and feels bad about it, and holds himself to a high standard. Jesse is far more honest with himself and far more honest with himself than Walt ever was. The two are in no way on the same path.

Come on now. The end of s3 is not "rolling with the punches." Anyone with a shred of a moral compass goes the feds/witness protection/protect your family route and that's what Jesse begs for him to do. It's only by Walt's own doing that his family is in imminent danger a season later. And Brock, he puts into the ICU for several days, it wasn't just a tummy ache. The kid could have died.

Punches that were usually created by his massive ego in the first place. He constantly insults Jesse and treats him like dirt, and he's blind to his attempts to reach out for help and to his needs (think of "Over", where he's too busy insulting Jesse to let him say "Hey, my RV is locked up and I got kicked out of my house, I need some money so I can have a place to stay.") He insults Jesse's intelligence, his look, his product, basically everything about him.

He couldn't be bothered to tell Jesse (or to have Badger tell him) "Hey, my brother-in-law is watching your house, don't leave until you get a sign from us". (episode "Sunset"). That leads to Hank beating the living hell out of Jesse, which leads to Walt buying Jesse off with the partnership.

Then, instead of just helping Jesse with the ricin plan vs. the dealers at the end of S3, he needlessly complicates things by involving Gus and Mike, and then he has to bail out Jesse by killing the dealers, and then subsequently save them both by killing Gale (or, more accurately, making Jesse do it).

Which of course leads to an entire season of the Sword of Damocles hanging over his head, which never needed to happen except that Walt can't stand not being in control.

One other thing I haven't really seen discussed but that I feel deserves mention as a deliberate choice from the writers: The end of season 4 had a lot of people saying "OMG Walt is so evil, he poisoned a kid!" But to me, that alone is not the kicker-- it's that he poisoned a kid and also BLEW UP A NURSING HOME. Who knows how many innocents he could have killed that way? In order to win his game of chess against Gus, he endangers both a child and the infirmed elderly (and those who care for them)-- basically the two most innocent, helpless groups of people in our society. And he doesn't care. Walt doesn't care about collateral damage; it's one thing to kill people who are a threat to your survival, but he no longer values human life if it even inconveniences his plans.

People who think Jesse is not evil are

a) forgetting how they felt about Walt before he let Jane die; and

b) have a pretty warped sense of morality given Jesse has been dealing meth for years with the only rationelle being his own financial gain.

It would have been better if someone else *was* killed in the nursing home. But I think Walt gets enough plausible deniability now that "I'm a chemistry expert, I know no one else would get hurt." That one doesn't bother me too much because it was fairly unlikely to hurt anyone else besides those who volunteered for the job or deserved it. The kid thing is worse, but he set it up so the kid would be saved, so no harm no foul.

I don't have a problem with Jesse dealing meth before that. He basically was a loser with no direction and not really any other good options. He has a moral compass and just has been in with the wrong crowd and is a bit weakminded. Those are forgivable sins.

People who think Jesse is evil are

a) forgetting how massively different Jesse and Walt's actions are; and

b) have no conception of moral grey areas if they think that anyone dealing drugs is automatically evil.

See? Anyone can make a list of reasons someone else is wrong without backing it up and give the impression they know stuff. You're gonna have to actually come up with some arguments, I'm afraid.

Gale was evil, QED.

"I WANTED TO LEAVE THEM ON THE COUNTER.












BITCH"

My god, "4 days out" is a masterpiece

I think this is more of a character flaw, Walt always thinks he still has everything under control (well, until S4 that is) and has too much pride to surrender/ask for help. That is also necessary for this show since obviously Walt can never go to the feds/witness protection. The show needs the watcher to think that that option isn't really an option for the show to remain believable.

I guess you could say that character flaw makes him evil but it doesn't make him evil to the degree where it is impossible to symphatise with him.

And obviously poisoning the kid is one of the worst things he has done so far, and I like how he put the 2 weakest groups in our society in danger for personal gain (kids and elderly), but it are calculated risks that show that he hasn't lost all morality. He could have made both those plans more succesful by using stronger methods, but chose not to.

Now that I think of it sending his neighbour to check if there was a bomb in his house was pretty evil too, though .

One of my favourite episodes, but I hate watching it just because I hate imagining how horrible it would be to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere with no food or water.

I think "COME HIGH, BABY!" and Walt's reaction - suppressing himself for a couple of seconds before giving in to the elation of realising how much money he's about to make - is one of my favourite moments.

yeah re-watching the old eps really reminds you how many innocent ppl have been impacted, directly or indirectly, by his decisions. i kind of forgot, but clearly he's been rationalizing and pushing this aside (like with the plane crash for example) for basically the entire series. i remember a couple years ago i thought they'd delve a little bit more into the direct consequences, or meth users, and so on, but not so much. but even without that you can see how many people have died, been wronged, or impacted by Walt's decisions and actions.

really hope the end of the series comes down to Walt v Jesse.

haha, so good.

I posted this in last season's thread, but I've gotta drop it again. Looking forward to some new additions to this soon:

Even after everything, I still have a hard time hating Walt because I still think of Bryan Cranston as the dad from Malcolm in the Middle. Epic casting, if you ask me.

rewatching "shotgun", how come there was no additional heat on Los pollos/gus when the truck was left with bullet holes and 2 dead guys who had automatic weapons in the back? Do we just assume the cartel took care of it later? it looks pretty clear the initial guys fled the scene...

when walt set up for the old dude to blow up gus, he must have negotiated something else with that dude right?

also, how will hank's rock/mineral hobby come into play? interested how walt will use that to his advantage.

He didn't have to, Hector had wanted to kill Gus for years. Walt gave him that opportunity. Hector didn't need anything else to exact his revenge, so I doubt there was any further negotiation.

what i mean is - since walt did hector a favor and hooked him up with the bomb and stuff, maybe hector did walt a favor and used his connections with the higher ups in the cartel to hook up walt before he blew himself up. like maybe there's a lab waiting for walt in chile or something? and he'll try to convince his family to come with him then BOOM walt jr gets kidnapped by jesse and he can't go.

Sucks for those with Dish/DirecTV that AMC might get dropped. If it should actually happen, that would be a swift kick in the nuts like 2 weeks before the season premiere