that was so bad. we also got another dose of gyp starring as joe pesci, just in case we missed it the first couple of times.

The way the hit was carried out, it would have been difficult to tie back to Rothstein if it had been successful (unless someone survived the attempt AND knew and could specifically identify Benny).

As far as being a liquor supplier, I wasn't sure that Gyp actually had any permanent source of importing liquor, just that he had a bunch he'd stolen from Nucky and could sell to Rothstein.

And whoever said Rothstein would never work with Gyp because Gyp makes everything personal is right, too. Gyp's attitude makes him a thorn in everyone's side and it's just easier to off him than deal with him.

Two possible things. When Rosetti tells Rothstein that Tabor Heights has access to the same ocean that Thompson used to control, and that he'd have the same boats and the same booze at the same price, Rothstein replies "I only want the genuine article. I have no use for anything else." Rosetti offers Rothstein the chance to taste from a shipment coming in the next night. Perhaps Rothstein found the product lacking. Perhaps he knows that Nucky has a source of genuine Irish whiskey. Perhaps the way Rosetti treated the paperboy convinced Rothstein that Nucky was right about Rosetti being bad for business.

But I don't think that is it.

Rothstein isn't the one to order the attempt on Rosetti. Nucky is behind it. When Nucky and Slater are waiting for Billie to return from rehearsal, Owen says he's nervous because "I don't like that it's out of our hands", and Nucky replies "If it goes the wrong way, then someone else is to blame." "It" is the hit on Rosetti. Owen replies "As you wish" - meaning Nucky does intend the blame to fall somewhere else. The hit is carried out by Siegel, who works for Luciano and Lanski. After being rebuffed and rebuked by Rothstein, I think Nucky went directly to Luciano and Lanski. We know Nucky doesn't like to be turned down, and when it happens he only seems to take it quietly - cf. Eddie Cantor. Nucky had noted that Rosetti reports to Masseria, and Rothstein is in a delicate situation with Masseria. He probably knows that Lansky and Luciano are trying to get their own operation going and are chafing under the hegemony of Masseria. Luciano and Lansky see this as a chance to weaken Masseria, and Nucky uses this as an incentive while also deflecting any possible blame onto Rothstein. Luciano was at the meeting with Rosetti where the paper delivery is mentioned. Your assumption that Rothstein is behind the attack just shows that Nucky was correct about the blame.

I think you mean Sigrid. It's a Norwegian name, so perhaps its harder to spell (or remember) than Inga or Hilda.

Agree with Meh till the end.

I won't mention the previews for next week, or at least what they contained, but I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on in those.

Dont think you can "steal" a shot. I mean its not like they were hoping no one noticed.

This actually makes sense. Nice job.

Yeah that was good. I hate you for ruining the next episode tho.

I missed all of that.

Yea people tend to always jump the gun on this show complaining such and such doesn't make sense. It almost always is explained in the next few episodes.

i like where all of this is heading so far, except jimmy's mom. stupid story line, her whole whorehouse is boring for some reason. Nuggy's drama with Billy is bad (poor Nuggy, to bad he is such a pos that no one cares what happens to his personal life), but i like how they did not draw it out and confronted Margaret with it so soon. Now it sort of puts Margaret in a very different position than not knowing about it. I do like that they are giving more time to Eddie Cantor. The show is filled with so many solid actors and lesser characters that really recreate the atmosphere and he is one of them.

It would not be in Nucky's best interests to be requesting that Lucky and Lansky whack Gyp if their own boss turned Nucky down for the same request. That would be Nucky undermining Rothstein with negative ramifications for Nucky. On that basis I still tend to think that Rothstein agreed to the whack, begrudgingly or not.

Maybe Alan bats for the other team. In which case his view would not be so crazy.

I loved the exchange with Eddie and Billy towards the end, when she didn't know who Lucy was to which he replied: "and the next one won't know anything about you either".
It's the first time we've seen Eddie be dark and vindictive.

Rothstein was there when Rosetti let his hotel room number slip. I really doubt a hit was made at said hotel room without his say-so (and really, really doubt that Lansky and Luciano would go behind Rothstein's back at this point in time).

I'm confused on that theory as well.

Originally I thought the scene where Luciano and Owen are just sizing each other up was due to the awkwardness of them being in the same room together with nothing to do. If that theory is correct, it's possible that they're actually trying to gauge the other person after talking behind Rothstein's back.

The main thing which I think points towards that theory being false is the ending: Why does Owen say "There's news from Mr. Rothstein"?

Seems odd that Rothstein would be the one to send word to Nucky first.




Agree that the gun scene is pretty bad. Why send one guy, also why send him when he was just chastised an episode before for how he handled himself in a gunfight, and finally after he killed everyone but the mark, why not just go back inside?

Forgot to ask:

When Nucky and Rothstein are arguing, Nucky says something along the lines of "you're dead below the waist" in regards to their dating practices.

Is this in reference to the scene in the first season where Rothstein sees the doctor about his std and says he has trouble getting it up? It seems odd that Nucky would know about this, or has Rothstein slept with someone that Nucky knows? Just found it odd that this was brought up the in their conversation.

That was Luciano.

Yeah just remembered that as well.

So now I'm really confused what that remark meant.

Maybe insinuating he was gay? We've never seen him with a woman after all.

NIT ALERT:

It's "Billie." Not "Billy."

Nuggy's girlfriend?

Yeah we never have seen him with a woman, that is strange.

makes sense indeed.
However at the end of the episode when Owen whispered to Nucky about 4 fatalities he said "there's news from mr. Rothstein"

Married with two kids FWIW.

Well,you're resonsible for the thought. At the end of my first viewing of the episode, I went away with the idea that Rothstein was behind the hit, after having calmed down and come to terms with Nucky. But your post questioning how it makes sense for Rothstein to do it made me rewatch and think some more. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.

Sure it's possible that Rothstein came around to agreeing. If that's the case, I think the show was being dishonest with its viewers, by leaving us with the impression that Rothstein and Thompson parted in disagreement.

I'm going to disagree with your "best interests" argument, though. Rosetti has shut down Nucky's entire income stream. He can afford to lose Rothstein as a customer - there were plenty of other potential customers disappointed when Nucky announced that henceforth he'd only be dealing with Rothstein. But he cannot afford to have Rosetti cutting the road. He'd prefer to have Rothstein's cooperation in the matter, but Rothstein turned him down and insulted him in the process. Crossing Rothstein is not a deterrent to the choice, it is an added incentive.

I think this is a stronger argument against my theory, but hardly conclusive. Lansky and Luciano are too small-time to be out from under the thumbs of the bigger operators, Masseria and Rothstein, but there can be no doubt that they have ambitions in that direction. They cooperate with Rothstein more than Masseria, but a Rothstein-Masseria war would serve their purposes.

Yeah I hadn't seen that. My PVR cut off the last 30 seconds of the show, when Billie and Eddie were on stage, and I just got to see that scene between Owen and Nucky now on demand. I've gotta agree that makes my theory unlikely to be correct, though not impossible. Rothstein has more potential sources of information on the event than Nucky does, and having been not quite successful, (he's currently at the "Murder Ltd." stage, rather than "Murder Inc.") Siegel might not be sticking his head up to report. Also Siegel is not in a position to know the correct number of fatalities - he was in too much of a hurry to check for vital signs. That points to the possibility of the information coming to Rothstein from Rosetti or a third party. But the fact that Rothstein reports this information to Thompson does make it seem like they are cooperating in the matter. If that's the case, Dominic's questions still stand.

Perhaps that final scene is the show's way of telling us that Rothstein and Thompson really are still working together. Or perhaps it is Rothstein's way of telling Nucky he knows what's going on.

Rothstein is more a gambler/businessman than a gangster. If he's behind it, he doesn't have a whole army of gunmen to carry out an overt attack. A surprise attack was the best chance, and that means one man on a pretext. If Nucky is behind it and wants to put the blame on somebody else, he doesn't have a whole bunch of outside people to go to.

Again the question of limited resources. Who else could they use? Siegel has certainly shown himself to be willing.

But also, plausible deniability. If Rothstein ordered it, he may consider Siegel/Lansky/Luciano expendable, and would seek to make the hit look like part of Lansky/Luciano's struggle with Masseria. Siegel is known to belong to Lansky/Luciano.

Unlike some shows, BWE actually recognizes ammunition limits. The element of surprise had been lost. Rosetti was armed and dangerous, and firing on Siegel as he fled. Rosetti has access to at least three more guns, so doesn't need time to reload. Rosetti had lots of other men in the town who would undoubtedly be alerted by the gunfire.

O/U on the number of episodes before a Harrow/Rosetti confrontation?

Or it's possible Rothstein found an easy opening through the delivery boy and thought it was worth the risk. If the plan had succeeded, it likely would not have been tied to him, and he would have been fine in NY.