When the kid answers the phone in the previous episode (the concussion one) he refers to the guy on the phone as "the gypsy", which maybe lends some credence to the idea that Gyp really did start a fire.

ahh yeaa thats why I thought it was him

owen obv lied, the kid was caught starting a fire red handed and the whole story line is weird and doesn't make sense

the kid says "the gypsy man" started the fire and that he moved in down the street after gyp almost gets killed in the previous ep by an assassin. then the kid later tells nucky "the gypsy man" is on the phone for him when gyp calls. im pretty sure we are supposed to assume it was gyp that started the fire.

I was pretty sure Owen lied as well. Gyp does not seem like the type to go start a fire in Nucky's back yard.

lol at Gyp starting the fire. The kid was shown to be starting fires. He concocts the story of a gypsy probably after hearing people say the name Gyp.

I was also under the impression that Owen lied. Given how much it's been hammered home that Nucky's upbringing contributed to making him what he is today, it's not surprising that the kid (no idea what his name is) would light fires after seeing his father figure engaging in that behavior. That said, what we actually got was oddly ambiguous but I get the weird feeling it wasn't meant to be. Could be a short scene or piece of dialogue got edited out.

is anyone else upset how this whole billy kent thing now seems like a a giant filler? so nucky was madly in love with her and now he wants to get back with margaret like nothing happened?

that chalky business proposal thing was almost painful to watch... they really could not come up with a more believable solution to a creation of rift between chalky and nuggy, than to create a conflict over an entertainment venue that chalky really really wants?

Gyp set the fire and Gale is still alive

Was a little bothered by this, but compared to the burning money it's nothing.

what gives you the idea he wants to "get back with Margaret," shes still been living with him the entire time. The whole situation is more of a business deal than a relationship, to give Nucky a better image of a religious family man. Think about all the things Margaret has done for Nucky, with his money, without even involving him most of the time

and wtf at Billy being a "filler," do you not enjoy character development? No wonder you think most of the side stories are irrelevant

...It's not believable that one of the few powerful black men of this time period wants to expand his territory? That the blown up boardwalk restaurant needs to be renovated? That in these racist times Nucky has no option other than to decline?

That whole thing where he was talking about wanting to start new with her and the kids, while Margaret was thinking about how much she wanted Owen's dick. Possible that didn't happen on the show, but i think it recently did.


whose character developed and how? Billy randomly appeared with very little set up and we immediately were forced to accept her as Nucky's love interest. She didn't really care for him, but in the end he beat up some random guy and won her heart; then she died... Where the **** is the development here?


It is not believable that two long time associates would not be more delicate when discussing issues such as this. I do not believe that Chalky would be so forceful with this issue and take such offense at a refusal, especially at a time when Nucky is practically in war and his life is in danger. And I do not believe that someone who is portrayed as a smooth talker and 'people's person' like Nucky, would be so curt and unceremonious when rejecting Chalky's proposal.

Query: was margaret telling the truth when she told Owen she was preggers? She asked for a diaphragm and got it at some point prior to that scene, and she had concerns about Owen being honest about his plans to follow her.

would be extremely out of character for her to selfishly lie like that, so.... probably

I felt that was normal Nucky bs. The fact that Margaret knew the baby was Owens makes it quite obvious that they haven't even slept together in quite a while. Like I said earlier, the whole thing seems more like a business deal than an actual relationship, and I see no reason why that would change

So you felt like you didn't learn anything about Nucky through the whole thing? and what do you mean she didn't really care for him, he had a key to her apartment, not to mention numerous scenes that dictate the complete opposite. Feel like you're missing a lot of reading between the lines and some other kind of obvious stuff

It's extremely believable, because Nucky doesn't give a **** about Chalky's request. To Chalky the reasoning is simple logic and convenient for his own desires. He doesn't really acknowledge the trouble Nucky is in, and he may not even know that he's on the brink of war. He has never been that close with Nucky, it's always been business

He's only a smooth talker when he meets someone for the first time or he needs something from them. He is an extremely blunt ******* with almost anyone who is actually in his business circle on a regular basis, aside from other bosses. I don't think you know the characters in this show as well as you think you do

It has really bothered me that lately we don't seem to see any of Nucky's politician side. by that I mean, where is the charm that made him likeable enough to hold the positions he's held in the first place? I guess part of it is that he's becoming more of a gangster, but it almost just feels like the writers forgot about that part of the character rather than made a conscious choice.

Can someone explain Gaston Means plot regarding Jess Smith?

Was is that he convinced Smith to burn the money by saying it was marked. Then Means tells Daughtery that Smith has lost it, as evidenced by buring the money, so Daughtery agrees to let Means kill Smith?

If that was the entire plan, it seems like a horrible plan. When Daughtery talks to Smith, wouldn't the natural question be - why did you burn the money? Wouldn't the whole plan unravel when Daughtery learns that Means tricked Smith into burning the money?

It is obvious that they haven't slept with each other for a while, but that's really because he was banging Billy right in front of Margaret's face. To me it seemed like Nucky was pretty genuine trying to reconcile with Margaret as of late. That scene where he was juggling and trying to be friendly with Margaret earlier, seems to support my position. He may not care for Margaret like he used to, but her family is much more than a business relationship to him and he clearly cares about it, especially the kids.

From Nucky's relationship with Billy, I learned that he was an obsessive, old creepy piece of ****, who doesn't really cares about people close to him. But I do not see it as character development, more like a revelation. It is not like he suddenly became this sort of person, it seems pretty clear that he was always a pos scumbag. This makes it even harder to care about his character, but whatever. As far as Billy's relationship with him, it seems pretty clear that he was seen as her 'sugardaddy', up until he beat up that guy and she fell in love with him for some reason.

Why would it believable that Nucky would not give a **** about Chalky's request? Up until now, they have seemed very close associates and it is not like Chalky was displayed as some low level officer brown-nosing Nucky, he was shown as someone in charge, whose favor it is important for Nucky to have. Chalky numerous times I believe displayed his loyalty to Nucky and Nucky before gave permission to get revenge on KKK in a very similarly divisive issue. It just seems very odd that Nucky would be flippant with Chalky all of a sudden.

I really do not think I am in danger of missing anything between the lines, this is the kind of show that spells everything out for you pretty clearly. Although, it just throws out so much crap out there, that I can't blame someone for missing a thing or two.

Meh. I don't think Nucky cares about his relationship with Chalky much now that his political endeavors have come to a halt.

This. Nucky needed Chalky for the black vote. He also used Chalky to help distribute his liquor. However, now that he's got no elections to win and has control of Remus' old assets, he has no need for Chalky.

he doesnt need people to shoot at rosetti?

I agree he did feel more attracted to Margaret when she sang in front of the children, and that he does care for the children. However I don't agree that he's been trying to reconcile with her, perhaps until now when he's seen her reaction to Owen's murder. He admitted to her that Billy is dead and its his fault, and I don't think he would have bothered with her too much if Billy was still around. If you think it's only been since her death that Nucky has been trying to win her over again, well then ok I guess, but I might disagree upon a 2nd viewing

I could not possibly disagree with this more. In nearly every scene with Billy even prior to beating up that guy, it is easily noticeable that Nucky has very strong feelings for Billy, and that she returns them. She cooks for him, shares genuine feelings, and he has a key to her apartment. He never gave her any money until the day before she died, aside from buying her some dresses

The idea that she falls in love with him only after he beats up that guy is just flat out wrong, and that is blatantly obvious to me from what I've seen of their entire relationship. I suggest you rewatch those scenes, but whatever, you are free to disagree

He's not low level, but he's not boss level either. I'm not sure why this seems odd to you when black folk are still very low class at this time; why would Nucky care so much about his wishes when he is about to go to war? There is no guarantee that Chalky is going send all his men to follow him into battle, and we don't even know how much manpower he even commands. It's not like he was flippant or disrespectful either, he is usually a much bigger ahole to people he views as beneath him

Imo, you are missing a lot. Your analysis of Nucky/Billy's relationship is not even close to accurate. There are many scenes where missing a single facial expression at a specific moment can mean a failure in understanding a character

Means told Nucky that he'd kill Smith for $40k. Means then convinced Smith to burn the money with the intent of making it look like Smith was losing it, hoping Daugherty would see. Means suggests that Smith will squeal, or at least get them found out, so he'll take him out for $40k.

We eventually learn that Means has never killed a man, and probably doesn't have the balls, all things considered, but $80k. We can suspend our disbelief for a second-- Means got two people to pay him $40k to kill the same man who he eventually got to kill himself.

He used to need chalky for the black vote, he doesn't anymore.


Though you'd think he'd get in Chalks favor for muscle. You'd like Chalky could supply a lot of " goons. "