i wonder how in play berlin being lizzie's grandfather and red murdering both her parents (sending her mom to the stewmaker, killing her dad in the fire) is

That would make Berlin Reds father. I don't see that happening.

Red is her father. I think with all the info he knows and the fact he set up the fake father to take care of her makes it pretty obvious.

I thought last night's episode was presenting us the idea that Mary-Louise Parker is Lizzie's mother, and that she was placed into Witness Protection but Lizzie somehow didn't go (the idea being that Red said Lizzie was dead to protect her from whoever forced the mom into Witness Protection).

There is also zero chance that was the last we saw of Red's ex's new husband. He is way too big of a TV character actor to do such a small one and done like that. He typically plays big heavies these days, so we should probably assume he's a bad guy keeping tabs.

This show is very bad at reveals. I had the whole Lord Baltimore thing basically figured out right away (just like the Stormare casting busting the Berlin storyline). I'm assuming Tom is the one spying on people from the car in the hoodie (unless they already revealed who that was, can't remember).

red being the father has just been so obviously alluded to since basically 5 minutes into the show's pilot that it almost seems lazy for a show that emphasizes SO MANY TWISTS! to actually let that be the case

maybe that does actually end up being the case though since any alternative would be pretty dark

I agree it is likely Red wont be the father because it is hinted at so strongly.

Red is her uncle ldo

I can see why giving that away takes away options for the show, but I think at this point they have too many maybe, maybe nots. They need to give some definitive answers.

I think when considering red as the father we have two options: 1) red got burned in the fire trying to save his family as someone set that fire to kill him. He sent Lizzie to the friend to raise her.

2) he was the one who set the fire to kill them and failed. And eventually found Lizzie and had a Change of heart to save her instead of kill her.

Tom was clearly dead in the final. How could they bring him back?

Lol, they literally showed that Tom got away in the finale.

Since Tom got away, any reports that those guys who showed up at the scene after would indicate that there was only one body found in that room. Assuming that Red has access to all information, and has already indicated that he pays close attention to all events concerning himself, he knows Tom is alive correct?

We would also assume that Lizzie, shown at the beginning of the episode holed up in a hotel researching the heck out of what's happening to her, would have looked at the after action report and would know that Tom is still out there.

I'm pretty sure this was addressed in dialogue in the finale where she thought he could have survived and Red reassured her he would have died from the wound. Its not clear if either think he died or survived.

Let me put it another way, this is TV, if he was dead they would have shown him dead. No body tends to equal no death.

And the possibility of random spy in hoodie being Tom floats somewhere around 97.35%.

I re watched the final. Tom whispers something in Lizzie's ear, before he gasps and goes unconscious. It's possible they left him alive, but why? It is tv so anything can happen but I would be dissapointed if he lived. It's not very often someone survives a gunshot without immediate surgery.

The body was gone by the end of the episode. Their intent was clear.

Agreed that he's still alive - I'm just doing a preemptive 'how would they not know that' when he's revealed in a few episodes and they express any surprise.

It's the Federal Bureau of Ineptitude. When they get something right it's more shocking than when they screw the pooch on something.

I think this is the case as well. Seems like he killed his brother or, maybe in a bigger twist, his sister and intended to kill the spouse too. He either thought Lizzie was not home and rescued her and set her up with his friend or meant to kill her then couldn't follow through and saved her and did the same. He reemerged later on thinking she was either in danger or wanting to make things right.

I don't know how but Netflix had skipped over the tanida episode when I watched season 1 so I didn't know it existed til today. My guess after seeing the swan lake scene (if we're still doing that):

Lizzie's dad and/or Berlin was responsible for a fire that killed red's daughter. Red retaliated in kind but couldn't let Lizzie die, saved her and gave her to Sam.

I'm still going with berlin's daughter being Lizzie's mom no matter how implausible that is

Ehh hopefully this okay to post itt, NSFW Agent Keen album.


http://m.imgur.com/a/SK5a2

THATS who that was!!!!

I saw that earlier and couldn't remember who she is. And it wasn't racy enough for me to really study. She looks good, though.

Not sure why it wouldn't be.... NH sir.

After tonight's episode think it's clear Lizzie is reds daughter

For some reason I find Lizzie cuter this season.

Not feeling this season at all yet. Seems all over the place plotwise and also seems like they are cutting between scenes way too much, showing perhaps a small development in one episode arc, then something else, then something else really quickly.

I could be imagining it but doesn't appear to be working as well.