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Old 09-24-2015, 10:48 AM   #6476
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

I haven't seen anyone comment about Austin just assuming Steve won the final HOH when Vanessa came out in 3rd place. Either he gives Liz no credit at all or they were told ahead of time.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:12 AM   #6477
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Everyone shouldn't assume that Vanessa voted for Liz just because of girl power. They should also realize that BB didn't worry about putting an end to her gift talk and **** with the Austwins and that she might have felt she had a financial motivation to both vote for Liz to win and want to take her to the end.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:27 AM   #6478
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by wetleg View Post
I haven't seen anyone comment about Austin just assuming Steve won the final HOH when Vanessa came out in 3rd place. Either he gives Liz no credit at all or they were told ahead of time.
I think it was just a logical deduction based on him knowing that if Liz had won she would have evicted Steve.
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:16 PM   #6479
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim View Post
I think it was just a logical deduction based on him knowing that if Liz had won she would have evicted Steve.
Or, more likely they showed the jurors part 1 and 2 of the final HOH competition so that he already knew it was between Steve and Vanessa. Given that they always show the competitions to the jurors I think this is most likely.
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:45 PM   #6480
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Or, more likely they showed the jurors part 1 and 2 of the final HOH competition so that he already knew it was between Steve and Vanessa. Given that they always show the competitions to the jurors I think this is most likely.
Yeah that's probably it.
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:45 PM   #6481
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Nothing wrong with Vanessa's vote. She is under no obligation to vote for the better player, which steve was (by a narrower, yet still obvious, margin than everyone seems to give him credit for). Liz was a close alliance member to her for the entire game. She actually worked closely with her, whereas working with Steve was like pulling teeth.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:05 PM   #6482
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

How high does this Q&A flop rank in BB history? I'm not an avid BB watcher but those were some of the worst answers I've heard in 4-5 shows.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:09 PM   #6483
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

They should be voting on who played the game best not who they like better. I understand some people who dont come from competitive backgrounds just vote for who they rather hang out with. A player from a gaming background whos always justifying everything being a game move and talking about game theory every 10minutes you would expect to vote in the spirit of the competition.

Also Steve played a way better game then Liz. Liz just sat around with Austin and her twin letting other people make game moves. Steve played his own game at least. He wasnt the best or most entertaining player ever but he was for sure above average for a BB house guest. Liz was a true idiot its like voting for Victoria last season. I understand her bf and sister feeling obligated to vote for her but nobody else should've and didnt but Vanessa.

Last edited by yellowfever; 09-24-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:10 PM   #6484
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Vanessa's vote made sense to me. She never really respected his game and always used him as a puppet. When you combine that with her saying in interview after that she felt closest w the twins her vote isn't a suprise.

I thought Steve played an OK game. comparing him to a couple previous winners id say he played worse than Ian and a little better than Andy. Steve's "big game moves" we're the most obvious plays ever esp with few people left. Wow he turned on his scamper squad when there were 6 left instead of 5!!! Wow he won a flip and didn't take the best player to the final 2! That being said he probably played third best game behind van and Austin and I don't think he woulda beaten either of them. he did find a way though and that's what Bb is about so congrats to him.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:16 PM   #6485
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
How high does this Q&A flop rank in BB history? I'm not an avid BB watcher but those were some of the worst answers I've heard in 4-5 shows.
Liz was basically equivalent to ginamarie from two seasons ago (bb15)
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:19 PM   #6486
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Your interrogation of Stevens game is hilarious. Look up results oriented.
Let me get this straight: you're calling my criticism of Vanessa's jury vote results orientated? What results were there? All the information was already available when Vanessa made that decision

Maybe you should look up results orientated
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:36 PM   #6487
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
How high does this Q&A flop rank in BB history? I'm not an avid BB watcher but those were some of the worst answers I've heard in 4-5 shows.
In Liz' defense, she knew she had ridden Austin's coattails the whole way so there wasn't much to say. Also I thought Steve made some really good points, but was clearly very nervous which caused him to oversell his case a bit.

I don't think the Q&A was going to sway anyone in the jury either way though. If anything it was likely Dr. Will who was the most influential in getting them to vote for the better game player.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:10 PM   #6488
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by yellowfever View Post
They should be voting on who played the game best not who they like better. I understand some people who dont come from competitive backgrounds just vote for who they rather hang out with. A player from a gaming background whos always justifying everything being a game move and talking about game theory every 10minutes you would expect to vote in the spirit of the competition.

Also Steve played a way better game then Liz. Liz just sat around with Austin and her twin letting other people make game moves. Steve played his own game at least. He wasnt the best or most entertaining player ever but he was for sure above average for a BB house guest. Liz was a true idiot its like voting for Victoria last season. I understand her bf and sister feeling obligated to vote for her but nobody else should've and didnt but Vanessa.
Bad post. Vote for whoever you want to win the game or against who you don't want to win the game. That is part of the game, handling the jury. And as far as "game theory" goes, it is irrelevant once your win expectancy reaches 0. There was no decision she could make at the vote that effected her finish in the game.

Also, comparing Liz to Victoria is absurd.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:42 PM   #6489
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Liz is not getting enough credit. Is she good? No but she wasn't nearly as bad as people are saying. She knew coming in she didn't know how to play the game. She had the alpha males on both sides protecting her early with Austin and Jeff. She always had a bigger target ahead of her. She also knew Vanessa was the smartest player on their side and knew more than her so she listened to her. I don't think that's a terrible strategy if you know you're not the smartest and don't know the game well. She also won a bunch of comps. I didn't watch live feeds but isn't this similar to Jon from BB Canada?
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:46 PM   #6490
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

She also was the biggest influence on keeping the scamper squad together when Vanessa wanted to turn on Austin and vice versa.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:49 PM   #6491
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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And her comment about voting for the person she felt would best represent everything this season stood for. I was sure she was voting for Steve after that because that comment definitely doesn't fit Liz.
she literally said "sorry steve" after saying that

( i agree with your sentiment tho)
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:45 PM   #6492
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

[QUOTE=YeahYou;48205250]Liz is not getting enough credit. /QUOTE]

Not gonna give credit to her when she wasnt even smart enough to realize how dumb it would be to take Vanessa to final two. Also her and sister came off to me like beeatchs through most of the show. Talking smack about your bf behind his back about being ugly and a bad kisser on national tv is so shallow.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:39 PM   #6493
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

its pretty funny in a ****ed up way that the guy who everyone was calling a creep and some came close to calling him a rapist actually ended up with the girl he was creeping on

lmao
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:46 PM   #6494
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRMHHyILu9w

backyard interview with vanessa. this is just who vanessa is, and it explains why she didn't own her game. she was herself in the house. she's emotional, hypocritical, lacking some awareness, etc.
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Old 09-24-2015, 10:42 PM   #6495
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by wontoo View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRMHHyILu9w

backyard interview with vanessa. this is just who vanessa is, and it explains why she didn't own her game. she was herself in the house. she's emotional, hypocritical, lacking some awareness, etc.
I agree that she's hypocritical and lacks awareness. While it's an annoying part of her personality for me it doesn't outweigh her positives of what she did this season and what i love about rooting for her. And i don't think she means to be hypocritical. Meaning it's not on purpose and mean spirited, she's not a scummy person, she just doesn't realize what she's doing. I love when people give 100 percent effort. And she gave 110 percent never not playing the game. She's like Kobe Bryant busting his achilles a couple years ago playing his ass off playing a ton of extra minutes every night trying to get the lakers into the playoffs. She lays it all on the court, she was ALL IN!!!! I also love rooting for the underdog and this was the ultimate comeback story. The house essentially buried her and not only did she dig her way out but got her revenge on all of them by taking every one of the other side out, plus Austin, who were the culprits of screwing her over. It was awesome to watch.

Her best moves were orchestrating the fight to get jeff to admit his lies and taking Austin out. She took out the most dangerous player on that side and came out of it looking as jeff gave her no choice. Even his own people felt him leaving was his own fault and not hers. Then taking out Austin was another great move. It gave her the best chance to win the game. If she kept him in she woulda been looking at a situation where she would have to be very lucky to sit in final 2 because nobody planned on taking her. Instead she was very unlucky not to sit in final 2 because of that move and all her moves. I mean she won the 1st leg of final 3. If liz won 2nd leg there's a really good chance liz takes her. So only way she doesn't win the game is if steve wins 2nd and 3rd leg then doesn't take her. Amazing she turned it around to be in such a good position from where she shoulda been considering Austin had Liz(and before that julia as well in her way) and steve had jmac. Everyone had a final 2 person except her and she had a big target on her back but managed to switch it to where she was the most likely to sit in a final 2 chair and win.

Last edited by DarkCheck; 09-24-2015 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:00 PM   #6496
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Good to see DarkCheck is alive.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:35 AM   #6497
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

don't have an hour to read DarkCheck's wall of Text, but as much as I have hated Vanessa for the past 2 months, she honestly didn't come off that bad in her interview w/Jeff. Blaming her crying on being a woman and getting "hormonal" every 28 days will set her supposed feminist cause back about 50 years, but she didn't seem to hold any grudge against Steve for evicting her and explained her vote for Liz as being loyal to the Austwins to the end
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:36 AM   #6498
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

I don't know if anyone listened to RHAP's pod w/ each of the final three, but he really pressed Vanessa about her vote...a few things I took away

- She had a reciprocal jury vote deal w/ Liz (however always thought it would be her sitting in one of those two chairs at the end)
- Thought Liz/Steve both played good games/fairly close in merit (lol)
- Thought that w/ the "tools and knowledge about the game" that Steve had coming in that he under-performed relative to Liz and her tools/knowledge (I mean, really? As a tiebreaker, I guess it'd be something to consider...but, no, really?!)
- Wanting a female winner played a part
- Felt she was closer to Liz over the course of the game than w/ Steve
- She was pretty blindsided when Steve evicted her, confident she was a lock for a F2 chair (me thinks she underestimated Steve's game)

--------------------------------------------------
Random musings of my own from this season

- Regardless of the above, I'm still annoyed Vanessa voted for Liz. There was absolutely some bitterness there. If she was some clueless recruit I wouldn't be as hard on her, but when you're the biggest gamer in the house (and a game theorist/pro poker player) I'm naturally going to hold you to a higher standard than others w/ these things. Vanessa was trying to sell to Rob that Liz's game was under-appreciated and that she came up w/ some brilliant strategy in there, but ya, not buying it. Pretty obviously just grasping at straws to justify a suspect final vote. Liz would've been HOPELESS strategically if she hadn't had Austin in there w/ her for the majority of the season.
- Maybe it's recency bias, but when was the last F2 where one of the F2 laid out a laundry list of why they played the better game than the person they sat beside? They usually just focus on their own game in those speeches, no? Have to admit, I got a good chuckle out of Liz fake smiling for the TV while Steve was beside her firing shots left and right at her game.
- Another thing that made me laugh? Watching Julia's reaction while her sister bombed the jury questions/final speeches.
- Could we please forever do away w/ this negative association w/ being a floater? It's ridiculous. It's absolutely a viable strategy and, dare I say, the optimal one?
- Regardless of the final result, I still say Steve/JMac made an sizable EV mistake by NOT flipping on Julia and voting out Meg a few weeks back. Steve ran hot w/ the HOHs down the stretch to book the W.
- Using Vanessa's "tools/knowledge going into the game" criteria, who was the bigger disappointment for you as a player - Meg or JMac? Has to be JMac, no?
- Where will Vanessa go down in Big Brother lore? I can't remember the post, but I agree w/ whoever it was that suggested Top 10-ish. Top 3 woman, for sure (Danielle Reyes #1, obv). Will, Dan and Derrick are still in a league of their own. I wish we had some way of going back to week #5 and seeing how this game would've played out had Vanessa followed thru w/ evicting Austin. She was sitting in a perfect position within the house at that point and ended up needlessly blindsiding Jason and giving everyone a reason to compare notes. Still, it was entertaining/impressive as hell to watch her fight her ass off for eight weeks after that (especially the next five, up until Austin's HOH in week #9). I believe she said something along the lines of "I didn't feel like I controlled the game, I felt like I fought my ass off the majority of the game". Hard to argue w/ that.

Last edited by TheTender31; 09-25-2015 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:41 PM   #6499
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Jason and Becky would have definitely come back at her eventually.

She woulda lost the twins. Game woulda played out very differently but evicting Austin at that point would have been horrible.
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:54 PM   #6500
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Jason and Becky would have definitely come back at her eventually.

She woulda lost the twins. Game woulda played out very differently but evicting Austin at that point would have been horrible.
Probably not. The other side still had no idea there were even sides. Vanessa probably has an easier time if Clay and Shelli aren't the next two evicted. Additionally at that point Liz was still playing Austin and Julia detested him so she would have taken the role of the twins main ally.
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