seriously has anyone made sure DarkCheck is ok?

I honestly feel her saying "representing the season" she meant someone who played with integrity and all that bs. Notice in her interview with Julie how she says Steve betrayed her multiple times and she knew he wasn't trustworthy. I also think her speech to the Jury had she won the final HOH would also be along those lines which would most likely cost her the game (not that it would have mattered with what we saw in the jury segment). She probably would have lost 7-2 getting votes from Shelli-Steve.

Did you watch this season? Saying Meg wasn't fooled is a joke. The first she heard about any alliance all game was when Steve mentioned scamper squad in his speech to jury.

Feeds are about to go live from the backyard

Lol, she would've won easy. Did you see even Meg was like no way is Vanessa coming out third.

did i say that?

and should i care?

she knows she's making a vote that could potentially be the deciding vote to award someone $500k and the title. she had at least what, like 20 minutes? I've seen her say on the feeds that liz has done basically nothing strategically and was just following other people who carried her. whether that was a part of vanessa's pitch or not, she was well aware that liz didn't deserve to win. and she also said she would've voted steve out, and then acted like he's so untrustworthy for voting her out. she's just been so hypocritical all season - she can justify anything she does with "I'm sorry i have to do whats best for my game!" but can't understand when someone else does that

its just an absolute joke for her to vote liz over steve, and i won't be convinced otherwise. i don't give a **** how little time she had, especially when she claimed she saw it coming lol. its just a joke


was she giving liz all the information?

she was just pissed that steve did anything ever against her, and was unable to comprehend that he is playing his own game. i don't even get what all this talk is of steve misrepresenting things vanessa did as things he did. the main things he talked about was his alliance with austin and him getting rid of jackie. vanessa wasn't a major part of either of those

frankly she just didn't want another gameplayer to win because she felt she was the best one. once she couldnt win she wanted it to just be a joke so that no one could argue she got outplayed. thats my read of her

i did watch this season

and i saw many people at many different stages of the game want vanessa out

and then she won an hoh or veto to silence it

if she doesn't have sick comp results theres no chance she makes it as far as she did

and this is even more bull**** when she had just said she would've voted steve out too

she really is the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen on this show. jason's comment was perfect, just ****ing own up to what you're doing

Maybe but that's the impression that I got. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

it would've been a joke for anyone to vote liz against either steve or vanessa. liz couldnt even explain herself why she should get a vote over them

she was basically a victoria who could win the question comps

Clay got a furless bat lol

These interviews are kind of lame though

fair enough, agree to disagree

as someone who's played online versions of Big Brother and Survivor 6+ times, I find it very easy to understand someone being inclined to award the win to the alliance member who was more in the loop over the person who you included as a tertiary alliance member and was actively tricking to believe they weren't so... Like, your whole mindset towards that person very quickly becomes formed to be "he's my pawn, he's a floater I'm taking advantage of". I feel really strongly that she had such a perception of Steve and that that's how she rationalized her decision.

edit: And to be clear, this mindset could've been compounded (I'm Danish, but I think that's the word) by what you're saying here too... That he considered himself a gameplayer. It could've been offputting to her and she would've certainly at least wanted to present her side of things of how he wasn't as much of a gameplayer as he presented himself as.

To be clear, I disagree with her vote, but I find it easy to understand it.

Is Audrey drunk? Lol

ok so Jackie just said she would have voted for Van over Liz

James too. Looks like she would have won.

Jackie said she would have voted for Steve over either of them though

Also, and this is just arguing for the sake of arguing, since the season is over and I'm bored:

The argument that Vanessa wanting to evict Steve at final 3 is proof that her vote for Liz is hypocritical is flawed for multiple reasons.

One, she could've believed that she was going to win against either and just preferred Liz

Two, she could've wanted to bring Liz no matter what simply because she felt closer to her (Cody bringing Derrick, for example) or because she wanted to ensure that a female won

Three, she could've believed that she was losing against both or had equal chances and again just preferred Liz

Four, she could've wanted to make an argument for winning based on her staying true to Liz or based on her evicting Steve that she couldn't have made if she evicted Liz

Five, she could've disagreed with the jury and thought that even though it would've been a closer vote against Steve that he still didn't would deserve to win against Liz

Six, she could've thought that Steve would still vote for her after getting evicted (and maybe that Liz wouldn't) and that maybe she needed that

Mostly just arguing for logic's sake, since I have no doubt that in all actuality she would at least eventually admit that Steve played the superior game (I guess, I don't even think it's a slamdunk personally, but whatever) and that she subconsciously expressed that by saying she would've gotten rid of him.

Vanessa knew steve had other plans besides just the scamper squad (j-Mac) and that he never intended to go to the final 5 with all of the Austwins. it's absurd to think Liz was a better gameplayer than steve - she was just more loyal to Vanessa than he was.

I'm sure Vanessa can argue that she was better than steve, but not that Liz was. Liz did nothing to place herself "in the loop" besides being born with a twin and getting Austin to fall in love with her. If anything, Vanessa was in the same boat as steve all season and should be able to understand what he had to do to get by - and should similarly be able to understand how Liz did nothing. Liz couldn't even articulate one thing she had done individually because there was nothing. Steve threw most of the comps and still won more than Liz did.

So I guess you can disagree with my read, but I still think Vanessa just didn't want anyone to have outplayed her. I find it very hard to believe that Vanessa believes Liz is a better player than Steve. I find it very hard to believe Liz was even more in the loop, as you say - I think steve downplayed how much he knew a lot. And of course Liz knew more between Julia and Austin for obvious reasons, but outside of that she didn't know anything. She only knew what she was told. Like this isn't even a debate

Meg was a complete and utter joke. Head in the sand gamewise and a joke at comps. Definitely bottom 3 worst competitor of the season.

Disagree on last paragraph, but oh well

edit: And to be clear, the only thing that matters is Vanessa's perception. Again, Vanessa will naturally have perceived Steve to much moreso being someone that she was lying to and tricking than she would've with Liz. I think that formed her opinion of Steve (speaking from experience of how I perceive other players in BB/Survivor games that I play). It doesn't necessarily matter how much Steve knew if Vanessa isn't aware of it, doesn't buy into it (or its value) or if she places a bigger importance on who knows HER information to share.

do you though?

I feel like what I've heard on RHAP and other people watching live feeds all summer, it was really more than anything just Vanessa voting for Liz because she's a girl, and Steve isn't.

and please - Liz was much easier for Vanessa to manipulate than Steve was. Vanessa manipulated Liz all season, ever since she was the one who first got Liz to admit she had a twin. the fact that Vanessa was mad about how steve apparently betrayed her multiple times this season shows how she couldn't control him as easily

Yes, I do. I haven't said that Vanessa is not being hypocritical or that hurt feelings didn't impact her vote. We are discussing how and why she is rationalizing the decision. I am adamant that it in large part has to do with her subjective and unique perception of Steve as being her underling and as being out of the loop of her actual main alliance (which, for the latter part, Liz wasn't, which is the main point).