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Old 09-17-2015, 10:13 PM   #6151
JB91
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

She also hasn't won the game yet.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:21 PM   #6152
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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She also hasn't won the game yet.
Doesn't matter if she gets the win at this point. Danielle Reyes didn't win either but is considered the best female player of all time. She deserved to win and got screwed by a bitter jury. Vanessa may get screwed in a similar way but it wouldn't take away from the performance. She might not even make the final but doesn't mean it wasn't an unreal performance and comeback.

She's not even your typical big brother athletic comp girl who are endurance beasts where they could do stairmaster for hours type atheletes. Yet she beats liz and steve(2 twenty something kids) in an endurance comp because she has an amazing will to win/survive.

Last edited by DarkCheck; 09-17-2015 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:44 PM   #6153
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

The crying stuff is not amazing TV but it hard to not make enemies when you win everything/control the result every week. Vanessa built an alliance where she wasn't always seen as the biggest threat (Shelli/Clay took the hit) and once it was clear how big of a threat she was you kinda needed to use her vote to target (Austin/twins).

One argument people seem to make is she doesn't own her game in the DR but my question is should a worse player that does win?
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:54 PM   #6154
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Doesn't matter if she gets the win at this point. Danielle Reyes didn't win either but is considered the best female player of all time. She deserved to win and got screwed by a bitter jury. Vanessa may get screwed in a similar way but it wouldn't take away from the performance. She might not even make the final but doesn't mean it wasn't an unreal performance and comeback.

She's not even your typical big brother athletic comp girl who are endurance beasts where they could do stairmaster for hours type atheletes. Yet she beats liz and steve(2 twenty something kids) in an endurance comp because she has an amazing will to win/survive.
You said greatest ever performance. There's legit arguments for her being the best female player but it can't be considered the greatest ever game if she doesn't win the season*. The fact that her mistake of winning final 5 HoH led to a final 4 PoV where she had a 50% chance of being voted out is a huge argument against her. If she loses the jury votes of Austin, Liz and Julia that is also a result of her gameplay and shouldn't be passed off as a bitter jury.

*Dan's season 14 game could be considered because his only path to the final 2 was the one he took.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:34 PM   #6155
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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You said greatest ever performance. There's legit arguments for her being the best female player but it can't be considered the greatest ever game if she doesn't win the season*. The fact that her mistake of winning final 5 HoH led to a final 4 PoV where she had a 50% chance of being voted out is a huge argument against her. If she loses the jury votes of Austin, Liz and Julia that is also a result of her gameplay and shouldn't be passed off as a bitter jury.

*Dan's season 14 game could be considered because his only path to the final 2 was the one he took.
It wasn't for sure a mistake to win final 5 hoh. Vanessa's only path with the position she's been in the whole game has forced her to try to win every week or she could be gone. This is because her team sold her out for no reason other they didn't care enough to support her. So winning and keeping herself safe can't be that big a mistake if at all. Also she realized final 4 is all about whoever wins veto. Sure it would have been nice to compete for the hoh that week but she doesn't know if she woulda been in the house. And she woulda only won the hoh 33 percent of the time. If you have a good shot at final 5 in her position i think she was right to go ahead and win it. Not to mention it allowed her to setup who stayed or left in final 5 giving her a better path to finals.

How exactly would she be able to get to a final 2 and get Austwins votes? If she doesn't turn on Austin she most likely will have to go into a final 3 with austin and liz unless they decide to boot her. If she beats the odds and gets the win in final 3 comps so she can go to final 2 she still has to compete for votes in final 2 with an austwin. Which means she would never get their votes anyway. That's the funny thing is most people expect votes in jury from their main alliance where she can't get their votes.

Dan lied, backstabbed, promised grandma's bracelet to many people which made him deserve a bitter jury. Where vanessa has a bitter jury purely out of anger they didn't get her before she got them. And because the house got a campaign going that she was audrey number 2(lying and blaming others for stuff she did) which was a total lie. And that she was solely responsible for everything that happened in the house because her allies wouldn't take their own responsibility in the evictions. They just sold her out and dumped it all on her. Not saying Dan didn't need to do what he did to get to final 2 necessarily, just saying vanessa being blamed for the bitter jury isn't really her fault as much as it was all dan's fault.

Last edited by DarkCheck; 09-17-2015 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:00 AM   #6156
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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The crying stuff is not amazing TV but it hard to not make enemies when you win everything/control the result every week. Vanessa built an alliance where she wasn't always seen as the biggest threat (Shelli/Clay took the hit) and once it was clear how big of a threat she was you kinda needed to use her vote to target (Austin/twins).

One argument people seem to make is she doesn't own her game in the DR but my question is should a worse player that does win?
If they're saying she doesn't deserve to win because she doesn't own it that's silly. I think most say it just in a sense that she's less liked as a result. She plays the victim in the DR instead of owning it and saying "haha, i played them" ala Dr will, Dan, Danielle Reyes, Boogie, Evil Dick would. Also disliked by some because she acts like it's justified in her mind when she turns on people because she needs to do what's best for her game. But when someone does it to her she treats them like their terrible people that she can't tolerate. How dare them treat her that way when she's been nothing but loyal to them. This while she was plotting against them in the meantime. But i think that's part of her strategy, to make people feel guilty/terrible people if they lie or turn on her.

Last edited by DarkCheck; 09-18-2015 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:17 AM   #6157
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Vanessa is a lone wolf in the house because her social game is terrible, she's overly emotional and no one trusts her. That's not good gameplay.
maybe that is part of her strategy ... overly emotional and going for pity / sympathy.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:20 AM   #6158
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

She was overly emotional for a few reasons. 1 was to not look strategic. Another was to hide her alliance so she needed her reason to always put up the other side.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:25 AM   #6159
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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She was overly emotional for a few reasons. 1 was to not look strategic. Another was to hide her alliance so she needed her reason to always put up the other side.
And she was so successful at hiding her alliances that if gave becky and other side the feeling of a greenlight/no blood to go after her because they thought she was all alone. She wasn't alone until Austin decided to turn on her instead of protect her. But she got screwed in the game by hiding her alliances too well which was ironic.

Last edited by DarkCheck; 09-18-2015 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:00 AM   #6160
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Vanessa is like a guy who hits a woman and then says, 'Why do you make me do this to you?' There is, rightfully so, going to be some lasting grudges in the jury.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:06 AM   #6161
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Vanessa is like a guy who hits a woman and then says, 'Why do you make me do this to you?' There is, rightfully so, going to be some lasting grudges in the jury.
Disagree with this.

I think some might be bitter but overall I don't think most care that much.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:08 AM   #6162
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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You said greatest ever performance. There's legit arguments for her being the best female player but it can't be considered the greatest ever game if she doesn't win the season*. The fact that her mistake of winning final 5 HoH led to a final 4 PoV where she had a 50% chance of being voted out is a huge argument against her. If she loses the jury votes of Austin, Liz and Julia that is also a result of her gameplay and shouldn't be passed off as a bitter jury.

*Dan's season 14 game could be considered because his only path to the final 2 was the one he took.
Its unlikely she loses the votes of Austin, Liz, Julia because she'll surely be sitting next to Liz if she makes the finals and she can't win Austin and Julia votes vs. Liz regardless.

Also, just for the record, Austin is legit delusional, thinking Liz is the favorite to win America's Choice, and that she would have been difficult for him to beat in the finals. I mean LOL. If Vanessa can't get this fool's vote, I don't think I can even count it against her.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:50 AM   #6163
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Sad that the seasons coming to an end. It's been really enjoyable the entire way through with a mix of delusion (Austin), insanity (Audrey), random hilarious things (James), stupidity (Meg), and excellent game play (Vanessa). She ran circles around everyone in there and hope she takes it down. Sure she doesn't make it probably on an all time great level (the 3 stay the 3) but she was the only one in this game constantly concerning herself with positioning (shielded by clelli early and austwins later) and future consequences (even if her REASONS got tedious as a viewer). Toss in crushing comps, using twists to her advantage (twins early), and turning an easy backdoor on her into a unanimous stay (even if she wasn't entirely behind it) and it would make a worthy winner.

Much better season overall than last year.


Edit: I'd also be cool with a Steve win overall, especially if he wins pt2 + pt3 and cuts Vanessa. Just like I would have been totally cool with a Cody win last year if he cut Derrick at the end.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:08 AM   #6164
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by JimHalpert View Post
Sad that the seasons coming to an end. It's been really enjoyable the entire way through with a mix of delusion (Austin), insanity (Audrey), random hilarious things (James), stupidity (Meg), and excellent game play (Vanessa). She ran circles around everyone in there and hope she takes it down. Sure she doesn't make it probably on an all time great level (the 3 stay the 3) but she was the only one in this game constantly concerning herself with positioning (shielded by clelli early and austwins later) and future consequences (even if her REASONS got tedious as a viewer). Toss in crushing comps, using twists to her advantage (twins early), and turning an easy backdoor on her into a unanimous stay (even if she wasn't entirely behind it) and it would make a worthy winner.

Much better season overall than last year.


Edit: I'd also be cool with a Steve win overall, especially if he wins pt2 + pt3 and cuts Vanessa. Just like I would have been totally cool with a Cody win last year if he cut Derrick at the end.
Nice post! But i guess when you make 41k posts you get pretty good. Agree with every word.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:38 AM   #6165
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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Originally Posted by JimHalpert View Post
Sad that the seasons coming to an end. It's been really enjoyable the entire way through with a mix of delusion (Austin), insanity (Audrey), random hilarious things (James), stupidity (Meg), and excellent game play (Vanessa). She ran circles around everyone in there and hope she takes it down. Sure she doesn't make it probably on an all time great level (the 3 stay the 3) but she was the only one in this game constantly concerning herself with positioning (shielded by clelli early and austwins later) and future consequences (even if her REASONS got tedious as a viewer). Toss in crushing comps, using twists to her advantage (twins early), and turning an easy backdoor on her into a unanimous stay (even if she wasn't entirely behind it) and it would make a worthy winner.

Much better season overall than last year.


Edit: I'd also be cool with a Steve win overall, especially if he wins pt2 + pt3 and cuts Vanessa. Just like I would have been totally cool with a Cody win last year if he cut Derrick at the end.
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Nice post! But i guess when you make 41k posts you get pretty good. Agree with every word.
Agree
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:00 AM   #6166
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

James better be America's player.
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:17 AM   #6167
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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James better be America's player.
Has to be either James or John.
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Old 09-18-2015, 03:25 AM   #6168
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

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James better be America's player.
I'd vote for him over John for fiscal reasons.
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:55 AM   #6169
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

who should each player take to the final 2?
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:58 AM   #6170
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Vansssa chose to keep Austin in week 3 drawing the lines between the two sides of the house when the other side wasnít even aware of what was going on. However she knows Austin so well that she knows that he will never turn against her and even if the other side wins HOH she can always throw Shelly/Clay UTB.

Next week Clay gets evicted and Shelli/Clay are one conversation away from throwing Vanessa under the bus. James is at one point begging them to give him something but they choose not to. Again great gameplay by Vanessa for aligning with people who she predicted would never throw her UTB.

Sheís then nominated and Becky has her almost evicted until the three stooges decide to randomly keep her. During this week she does absolutely nothing and gets -some would say- lucky. Shelli is again one conversation away from staying in the house but why bother? Thatís how Vanessa wanted It all along.

At this point sheís on top of the list for James/Meg/Jackie/Becky/JMac to target with whom she has no relationship at all. Even her allies want to keep her just because sheís gonna be evicted before them. But thatís no problem at all because that was the plan. Align yourself with the strong players in the house and hope for them to win every HOH. Of course they do win the next 5 HOH's and the other side is completely whipped out.

Then at final 5 she decides to win HOH even though sheís safe and blindside a complete egomaniac. No problem though cause she can always win F4 Pov and probably thatís how she planned it and executed it perfectly.

And finally the Jury management has been great.

Iím not being results oriented or anything like anyone itt but you have to give credit where itís due so therefore Iím jumping on the bandwagon. She is the greatest strategic mind of all time.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:01 AM   #6171
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Vanessa > Liz
Vanessa > Steve
Steve > Liz
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:39 AM   #6172
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Basically if Steve loses part 2 to Liz and gets eliminated from HOH, Vanessa automatically wins because Liz takes Vanessa 100% of the time out of pure delusion that she can't win.

Love it.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:14 PM   #6173
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

I've only checked 5 twitter accounts to see what they thought of vanessa's game. Dan gheesling, evel dick, Danielle reyes, Andy, Ian terry. And all 5 said vanessa played the best game and deserves to win. 5 out 5 champions(danielle won that season i don't care what the record says) all said vanessa was the best. Yet some posters still claim she played a horrible game like the post above?

I'll just say vanessa aligned herself very nicely in the game. All this bs that she got in trouble because her social game was awful is nonsense. She had more alliances and influence than anyone in the game until shelli and clay went down. The problem was her alliances betrayed her by turning their backs on her. Especially Austin, and the twins as a result of austin's lead. The austwins had the most power and influence in the house and when they heard rumors of a vanessa possible backdoor, they not only didn't try and protect/notify her/or try to sway other side to back off that she's not alone, instead jumped on board the "we hate vanessa, she's Audrey number 2 bus". If they stayed loyal she never would have had this uphill fight this whole game. It wasn't her poor gameplay but their disloyalty that f'd her over. But she still made a comeback with all odds and players against her.
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:18 PM   #6174
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Derrick>>>>>>Vanessa ainec
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Old 09-18-2015, 02:25 PM   #6175
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Re: Big Brother 17 -- Premieres Wednesday June 24th on CBS @ 8pm

Yeah she made a great comeback with everyone against her. But drawing dead to a perfect succession of comp wins doesn't make you a great strategic player.
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