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Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season

08-17-2022 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
I guess, but that is what we are doing.



There is a whole scene the purpose of which is for Jimmy to have a conversation about the legal trouble Kim is in, and it exactly this trouble that makes Jimmy change his mind, then poof it evaporates.



She has a conversation with Jimmy and its all about Jimmy, nothing about the situation Kim is in, which Jimmy took as a big deal on the plane, then never mentions it when they meet?



There is a clear narrative dissonance.
Yes I agree you are correct. The obvious message from the scene on the plane was that Jimmy's fake story about having more information about Kim to spill to the authorities, was motivated by the news that she was in big legal trouble. Therefore it was natural for viewers to expect that whatever last card he played, would be to save her from that trouble.

However it was misdirection... his real motivation was to get her to the hearing so she could see in person that he was still Jimmy, and not totally gone to the dark side.

The fact that he came up with this idea after hearing of Kim's legal troubles was just coincidental, I guess. I agree it's a bit lazy as it all felt like a plot machination to bring Kim and Jimmy together at the end. In reality, why would Kim travel all the way to NM for his sentencing hearing, just because she heard he was going to give some more info to the cops? Especially when she had already confessed everything. It doesn't make much sense, it wasn't even a trial. She wouldn't have been there.

That being said it's kind of a nitpick because they HAD to bring them together one last time, somehow. No way would have been perfect.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 02:21 PM
they made it clear over and over and over (including at least twice in that place scene) that kim probably wasn't going to face any criminal consequences, just that cheryl could sue her. yes the scene was a bit of a misdirect (unless jimmy said something that might help her, but i don't think so). cheryl may still choose to sue kim, we don't know. i doubt kim cares too much.


thinking about it now, on the plane jimmy probably was gonna spin some saul lies in order to "save" kim, but changed his mind in the courtroom. there was a moment that paralleled his bar reinstatement hearing, when he pulled out the letter from chuck and lied to get his way, but this time he went with the truth (obviously getting that idea from what kim did). saul could have got 7 years, but jimmy took 86.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
How do she save her self from all her legal problems? Which we are meant to know about because the scene on the plane is basically an interlude to inform us that Kim is in big trouble due to civil, suite etc, this is the motivation for Jimmy going full confess mode, then the problems facing Kim are never mentioned again and abracadabra she has her legal licence back.

The audience can be totally forgiven for thinking Jimmy is doing this (confess mode) to get Kim out of trouble, but according to writers this is not the case, he is simply matching her confession, throw in that Kim is specifically told that Jimmy is going to testify about her and it all gets a bit messy because he does not say anything other than I ran etc, nothing in relation to her legal problems.

Its the complete evaporation of her legal peril, a peril that is put front and centre to the audience as a plot device, that just seems like a wiff imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
So here is the scene in question.

The Lawyer clearly lays out the peril Kim is in and Howards wife can take her for everything she has in perpetuity and is out shopping for lawyers.

The scene is simply a platform for this dialogue.

Then cut to Jimmy reflecting on this information as lawyer in on the john. He already knew Kim confessed.

Lawyer walks back from the toilet and Jimmy tells his lawyer to tell the other side he has spicy information involving Kim etc.

Spoiler:


The problem being:

The peril is clearly presented as a motivation for Jimmy but its actually wanting Kim to be present to witness his confession, which is utterly unrelated to her peril, it does nothing to resolve it in anyway, and of course there is the problem of the peril we have just had our attention very firmly drawn too, simply never being resolved in any alternative way.
Did my post last night actually post? Saul kinda-sorta saves Kim by saying she had nothing to do with Howard's death and makes it slightly harder for Mrs Hamlin to sue in civil court if it matters.

The Rule of BCS = Saul ruins everyone he touches. Chuck declared that in their final scene, (chronologically). Kim is a problem for the writers because she is Saul's right shoulder angel and they would really piss off the audience if they left her in a ditch. So they really hedged with the character. She's stable but not thriving, mostly safe from the police but under suspicion, helping the needy but not as a lawyer etc. G&G will have to put their foot down if and when they are asked about her spinoff.

The name of the show is not Jimmy and Kim so this is not really objectionable even if a buzz kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron
Is there any state where they can take your home from you that you are living in? Assuming it's not a mansion or something.
They have some version of it but probably not that strong. My state caps the homestead exemption at $150,000 while Florida appears to have no limit.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 02:40 PM
also, the "misdirect" is basically diffused within the plane scene

- oakley tells jimmy that kim is prob fine legally
- jimmy relieved
- oakley tells jimmy that kim might get sued by cheryl
- jimmy concerned, thinks while oakley is in the bathroom
- oakley returns, jimmy says he has more to trade
- oakley tells him that saying more could **** up kim
- jimmy say mmm mmm good ice cream

so the "misdirect" they established is that jimmy thought of something new (like what?) to sell out kim for ice cream ..... sorry if you fell for that

Last edited by 72off; 08-17-2022 at 02:51 PM.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 02:47 PM
I'm not really sure from a civil liability standpoint that Kim's moral blameworthiness in Howard's death matters; I can't see how there would be a good cause of action against Jimmy or Kim in relation to the death itself. They didn't take any action that would create a foreseeable risk that Lalo Salamanca would murder him.

I assumed that the civil liability would all be defamation stuff, which could be considerable by itself given the totality of Howard's circumstances.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
also, the "misdirect" is basically diffused within the plane scene

- oakley tells jimmy that kim is prob fine legally
- jimmy relieved
- oakley tells jimmy that kim might get sued by cheryl
- jimmy concerned, thinks while oakley is in the bathroom
- oakley returns, jimmy says he has more to trade
- oakley tells him that saying more could **** up kim
- jimmy say mmm mmm good ice cream

so the "misdirect" they established is that jimmy thought of something new (like what?) to sell out kim for ice cream ..... sorry if you fell for that
This is a complete swing and miss.

Firstly the messaging from the Lawyer is not everything's fine, its everything fine legally in a criminal sense but Kim could still be potentially totally screwed in civil court and owe everything in perpetuity etc.

Its a clear expression of dramatic peril.

Which Jimmy obviously reacts to with concern for Kim.

Secondly, Jim is hardly going to hear that Kim is in peril and think yea nows the time to win the ice cream, which if he had a way of doing so, he would have done so previously, so its super duper obvious that is him just bsing the lawyer.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 03:15 PM
Oh yeah, keep forgetting to mention. If you didn't see the "Talking Saul" episode a couple weeks back, Gilligan tells a nice story about how he got Carol Burnett to play her part. Pretty funny and, as he said, "the most Hollywood way possible."
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
Jim is hardly going to hear that Kim is in peril and think yea nows the time to win the ice cream, which if he had a way of doing so, he would have done so previously
yes, which is why, unlike you, i never thought that was going anywhere
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 03:25 PM
i thought the coming clean thing was more about the time machine / regrets stuff they set up earlier, not about getting kim off, which there was nothing criminal to get her off from.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
yes, which is why, unlike you, i never thought that was going anywhere
Wtf are you talking about, that whole scene is why Jimmy changes it up from 8 years or whatever.

It absolutely went somewhere, it just left a bit of a vacuum when it got there which has utterly **** all with his comment about ice cream.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC11GTR
Over/Under on whether we find out what happened to Huell?

I think the actor lost a ton of weight, so that could play into it lol
Huel was in an episode in an earlier season where he got a fake write in campaign for his freedom from shill ballots. As he was 3 bills or heavier in the first series I suspect he was told to drop weight by his doctor as he looked about 30+ pounds lighter for the appearance on Better Call Saul.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-17-2022 , 11:35 PM
Great breakdown/recap

Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #Thinman
i thought the coming clean thing was more about the time machine / regrets stuff they set up earlier, not about getting kim off, which there was nothing criminal to get her off from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
This is a complete swing and miss.

Firstly the messaging from the Lawyer is not everything's fine, its everything fine legally in a criminal sense but Kim could still be potentially totally screwed in civil court and owe everything in perpetuity etc.

Its a clear expression of dramatic peril.

Which Jimmy obviously reacts to with concern for Kim.

Secondly, Jim is hardly going to hear that Kim is in peril and think yea nows the time to win the ice cream, which if he had a way of doing so, he would have done so previously, so its super duper obvious that is him just bsing the lawyer.
Reminds me back when Jimmy 'broke down' in front of the malpractice insurance lady, a poster or two actually questioned whether he was acting to screw Chuck.

Kim's situation she put herself into didn't really make sense so his rescue can be odd in turn.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 09:17 AM
Just caught up with the second half of the season. Wow, that was... terrible? There's no reason for this to go beyond 10 episodes besides Gilligan wanting to jerk off at himself, just like there was no reason for Lol Camino to exist.

Every BB character appearance felt completely artificial just for the fanwank. Kim's entire story made no sense whatsoever. The entire Omaha storyline was a total wtf. So many poorly written / directed scenes where we're left guessing what the intention was.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 10:09 AM
I have some sympathy towards criticism about the writing, but the acting, cinematography and direction are elite level.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 10:53 AM
The cinematography was mostly gorgeous as usual (although I'm not convinced the black and white was such a great idea), but there were a lot of nonsensical / poorly presented scenes that it's hard to not blame the director(s). A prime example being the bus scene in the finale -- I had no idea if the inmates were shouting "Better Call Saul" because they were somehow idolizing Saul or because they couldn't wait to kick his ass. Both options made about as little sense.

The whole court scene climax was pretty nonsensical as well. More of a writing issue here, but I thought they suffered from pretty serious FPS in so many key scenes. As in putting 100% of the effort into making the scenes look as gorgeous as possible, and in the process forgetting what they were actually trying to say.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
A prime example being the bus scene in the finale -- I had no idea if the inmates were shouting "Better Call Saul" because they were somehow idolizing Saul or because they couldn't wait to kick his ass. Both options made about as little sense.
How is this the fault of direction?
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass
I had no idea if the inmates were shouting "Better Call Saul" because they were somehow idolizing Saul or because they couldn't wait to kick his ass. Both options made about as little sense.
They were clearly pro-Saul, I don't think that is debatable. The scene was designed to show us that Saul wasn't going to get murdered in prison. He can live out his prison life providing legal counsel in exchange for not getting shanked.

Loved the finale and I thought the black and white looked gorgeous.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 01:47 PM
Yeah, saying you couldn’t tell if they were pro Saul is just trying to find fault with the show where it doesn’t exist.


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Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass
The cinematography was mostly gorgeous as usual (although I'm not convinced the black and white was such a great idea), but there were a lot of nonsensical / poorly presented scenes that it's hard to not blame the director(s). A prime example being the bus scene in the finale -- I had no idea if the inmates were shouting "Better Call Saul" because they were somehow idolizing Saul or because they couldn't wait to kick his ass. Both options made about as little sense.

The whole court scene climax was pretty nonsensical as well. More of a writing issue here, but I thought they suffered from pretty serious FPS in so many key scenes. As in putting 100% of the effort into making the scenes look as gorgeous as possible, and in the process forgetting what they were actually trying to say.
Filming in b&w is a lost art. Watch any old Twilight Zone episode and you can count the leaves on the trees. BCS was maybe a 3rd generation 7-11 security cam.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires
They were clearly pro-Saul, I don't think that is debatable. The scene was designed to show us that Saul wasn't going to get murdered in prison. He can live out his prison life providing legal counsel in exchange for not getting shanked.

Loved the finale and I thought the black and white looked gorgeous.
that makes sense for sure.

I read it different tho. I saw it to mean, like others have mentioned, that he is Saul. or a part of him is Saul. he did all that, he told the judge to call him Jimmy. he told the fellow prisoner to call him Jimmy. but hes still Saul, at least on some level. he cant run away from or erase that, bc its who he is.

and ya I thought that was one of the parts that really made sense and hit.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-18-2022 , 09:50 PM
yeah I didn't get why they emphasized that cheryl could take everything kim had, what could she even have? she didn't get the sandpiper money and had the sprinkler job in FL

and cheryl is filthy rich anyway, not like kim is gonna write a book titled "If I did it" and she can get the proceeds

also with Saul it was a nod to the fact that those inmates are "his people"
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-19-2022 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onlydo2days
yeah I didn't get why they emphasized that cheryl could take everything kim had, what could she even have? she didn't get the sandpiper money and had the sprinkler job in FL

and cheryl is filthy rich anyway, not like kim is gonna write a book titled "If I did it" and she can get the proceeds
Well I suppose they can take what little she has. I know she didn't get the Sandpiper money but she was a successful corporate lawyer for a while, she must have had some savings. Also can't they garnish future wages, etc?

I think the civil suit was really just a way to show that Kim won't get to essentially apologize to the wife and admit her involvement to the authorities, and get off scot free with a clean conscience. She will still face consequences of her own, even if not as severe as Jimmy's.
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08-20-2022 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
Well I suppose they can take what little she has. I know she didn't get the Sandpiper money but she was a successful corporate lawyer for a while, she must have had some savings. Also can't they garnish future wages, etc?

I think the civil suit was really just a way to show that Kim won't get to essentially apologize to the wife and admit her involvement to the authorities, and get off scot free with a clean conscience. She will still face consequences of her own, even if not as severe as Jimmy's.
They should have held back showing Kim's confession to Mrs Hamlin. From Jimmy's perspective;

He finally gets a # for Kim
Call ends in why don't you confess?
He gets arrested, Sauls his way to a 5 yr plea offer.
Saul plays Hamlin card for ice cream.
Saul learns Kim already confessed, card worthless.
Saul is on plane, learns Kim is going to be sued.
Kim is saved by a clever scheme from slippin Jimmy!

problem is we already knew it wasn't a secret anymore. Add that to how he only saved her from an embarrassing civil lawsuit. I wonder why they didn't use the more expected story line where Kim gets arrested for Howard's death only to be saved when Gene appears at her trial. I guess G&G didn't do that because it is the expected ending.
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote
08-20-2022 , 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
also, the "misdirect" is basically diffused within the plane scene

- oakley tells jimmy that kim is prob fine legally
- jimmy relieved
- oakley tells jimmy that kim might get sued by cheryl
- jimmy concerned, thinks while oakley is in the bathroom
- oakley returns, jimmy says he has more to trade
- oakley tells him that saying more could **** up kim
- jimmy say mmm mmm good ice cream

so the "misdirect" they established is that jimmy thought of something new (like what?) to sell out kim for ice cream ..... sorry if you fell for that

lol wtf is this
Better Call Saul (season 6): The Final Season Quote

      
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