Most PLO games are reg heavy and full of players who talk about strategy. I would come across as not fun if I didn't participate, but I am careful to only talk about poker strategy at a level beneath where concepts such as range and equity come into play.

in my experience this isn't remotely true.obviously your experiences are different.
i have occasionally played in games like this and they're terrible.
as far as the win rates being mentioned here- they are not close to feasible in games like this.

I am happy to listen to my opponents talk strategy because they tell me how they play and I can adjust to exploit them. I tend to be uncomfortable when faced with a table full of random unknowns until I figure out how they play.

I'll read the full thread eventually, but the regular PLO game I play is a no rake 1/2 $5 bring in PLO game with a 1k max buy. I'm around $125/hr through a small sample size of around 150 hours so far. That includes a 12 hour session where I was up 4,000 and ended up leaving +150 total.

I'm with you Borg, the PLO games I play are rarely talking about strategy. Way more banter, **** talking, and "friendly" slow rolling than strategy talk. In my PGC thread there was a guy that put in almost $1,100 preflop with 9743hhhh, obviously no one at the table needed to talk strategy after that hand lol

Some of my strategy talk involves giving a plausible, bot necessarily accurate, explanation to an upset reg of why another player made a play they don't understand and got lucky. I prefer my opponents to be predictable, so I often want to calm down an opponent so he doesn't becomes tilted and unpredictable.

I suspect that my style leads to a smaller standard deviation than opponents with a similar win rate.

congrats on the win so far
no rake sounds great!

just keep in mind 150 hours is statistically meaningless.

Absolutely haha. I was down $4600 of the $5,000 I brought last week before running it up to $6,500. If I lose that last $450 my hourly is significantly different.

ok, it's possible you are, sometimes I come off as an azz online but I like to think of myself as a perfect gent live. But you do seem angry, if you are just sitting there serious without saying a word that would be worse than carrying on a private conversation with your neighbor about win rates that no one else could hear imo

i think both are pretty bad, not sure which is worse.
games that are silent or games where people are discussing strategy win rates etc are almost always terrible.games with people laughing joking bsing and drinking are almost always at least good.

i absolutely am angry with regs who destroy their own games with their behavior. it's just totally unnecessary and stupid and i see it all the time.

if someone is better at me in poker that's fine,good for them. lots of people are. but better or worse there is no reason to suck the fun out of the game.

Man this online world is so toxic... maybe this is why I don't post much or check this site often...

I discuss one question about poker to one individual at a table and all of a sudden, I become someone who berates players, talks about hand ranges, discusses poker strategy, looks at tv shows on my phone... lol

I've never berated a player, never talked about a single hand range in plo at the table, don't talk about strategy, but sometimes guilty of watching a youtube vid if the table is pretty quiet. I'm the guy that usually drinks with the person asking "shots?" or getting really friendly with the whale and possibly grabbing lunch or dinner with them. I'm the guy you want at the table because I actually interact and have fun with everyone there. But apparently, because I asked one question one time at a table and decided to share and welcome other views on a forum, I am suddenly perceived as someone else, and told how to play... interesting how that works.

Some of you need to chill out, stop making assumptions, stop attacking people, and relax. Although it was a loaded question, we didn't come here to argue. I just wanted a cordial discussion, player to player, on what a proper win-rate should look like since I am inexperienced in this area and do not have enough PLO friends to have a sample or rough estimate to go off of.

Anyway, thanks for all your responses, they are appreciated! Any more are always welcome.

That's awesome man, keep it up! I can't believe you have no rake, that's probably what I'm jealous of the most... lol.

$125/h is boss, although it is a fairly small sample size. Keep us posted once you post more hours. I'd like to see what a 500 hours and 1000 hours graph would look like. (:

Lol you are Francis from the movie Stripes, “If any of you ***** talks strategy, and I’ll kill ya”

Never ever heard anyone ever discuss win rates at the table. Regarding strategy talk everyone pretty much knows there is strategy and there is always some low level strategy talk at the table. Like “I thought he was bluffing with a flush draw so I check called.” Weaker players engage in this themselves and I don’t think it turns anyone off. Berating is the real problem.

You will never know your true hourly live since games are so slow. I logged 860 hours in 2017 playing 5-5-10 PLO ($1,500 max). My hourly was over $150. Do you know how many hands I played in those 860 hours? 2 days worth of online grinding. You would need an insane sample to be confident of your true hourly and even then, your hourly has changed since the games have changed during that long period.

I had a look at my spreadsheet and it looks like my hourly over my whole sample at 5/5 (including 2/5, 5/5, 5/5/10) is ~$150, and I'm happy with that number. If you're making anymore than that over months/ years you're golden.

Note: sample size is nowhere near high enough to make this an accurate depiction of my true hourly at those stakes.

I think around 1k hours Live is a pretty good sample. Who cares if the game changes over time? That’s just poker and if you’re willing to change at the same or faster rate, then you are ahead of the curve.

Thanks for your input though! I definitely think $150/h is attainable. Yes, live 5/5 plo games are slow so it’s hard to get a decent amount of hours. That’s why I have to combine 2 years’ worth to get 1000 hours myself. Nice stats tho

May I ask how many hours that’s calculated from? That’s awesome though, thanks for sharing.

1000 hours really isn't that much
i've had 1000 hour samples where i made 200 an hour and 1000 hour samples where i barely made a profit

another 8 hours for +1714 (214.25/hr)

When I first started playing PLO years ago, it was at the 5/10 live level. I was a big fish, losing tons of monies. (Both in PLO and BJ.) I stopped playing live poker altogether for a while and just focused on very low stakes online. I realized that I loved playing poker, but could no longer justify the stakes I was playing live as I was torching thousands of dollars. I put all my energy into playing PLO online at the .05/.10 stakes and then gradually moving up to 1/2 and 2/5. Have no idea what my win rate was during my online time period and for the first 4-6 months I was a losing player. I grinded studied, learned from mistakes, put in volume and eventually became a winning PLO player online. Close to a quarter million hands I'd say.

After learning a lot playing online, I eventually gravitated back to Live Poker. I missed the interaction with people and just some of the other aspects that playing live offers. I'd often isolate myself from friends and family when I was grinding online and my social life sucked.

It was the best thing I could have ever done for my poker "career" though. Now I am a winning player at both PLO and NLHE cash games.

I have a PGC thread going if you want to follow along on my quest to win 100k this year. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...stuff-1703142/

2/5, rake cap 10, 4bb/100 perhaps, 20/100, 5/hr, 200 hr is 1k, minus entrance fee 300 per month, travel 100 per month, taxes of the remaining, you will die.

5/10, cap 20, just maybe you won't die.

Good points here.

Just my 2 cents, a table is more likely to be weaker if strategy cross-talk is a regular occurrence. In the toughest games that kind of talk usually doesn't have to be said at all in my experience and even if there was something interesting someone wanted to mention about their's or their opponents strategy nobody wants to donate that kind of edge or information anyway.

Very similar to how it's counterproductive to lose your bananas at a player for making a bad play and winning when clearly for your benefit you want them to think they played well or keep this information to yourself for exploitation later.

Take $20-$30 off each and you nailed it.

7500 hour sample. Observed hourly 141.40. All live PLO. stakes range massively from 5 dollar bring in to 50-100 bring in. I'd say over half the sample is 25 or 50 dollar bring in. 100k is biggest drawdown. I've had multiple 500 hour break even stretches.

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$100

/eot