Poker Stars $25/$50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 2 players - View hand 61057
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BTN/SB: $5746.00
Hero (BB): $11593.00

Pre Flop: ($75.00) Hero is BB with 8 3 8 7
BTN/SB raises to $150, Hero calls $100

Flop: ($300.00) 8 6 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $250, BTN/SB raises to $900, Hero calls $650

Turn: ($2100.00) T (2 players)
Hero bets $1900, BTN/SB calls $1900

River: ($5900.00) J (2 players)

Obviously pretty much every street in this hand is very debatable and I'd be more than happy to discuss all of them, but I'm mostly wondering if everyone thinks I should always be firing this river after the previous 2 streets? What hands do you think call turn then fold river? Rsa87 is the villain here and the game dynamics were extremely loose HU on 3 tables with a ton of 3/4betting preflop and flop donk leads.

i'm pretty sure that he'll never be calling riv with random 2p or whiffed anything. his turn flat has me thinking he either has the nuts + heart redraw, or the pot is probably split.

i think it's close but c/f seems best to me on the river, although knowing if villain would ever bet a 7Txx type hand here is critical.

you can make a decent argument for getting it in on the flop given the game dynamic, but looking at it in hindsight i much prefer trying to do it on the turn - i would either crai, or make a much smaller lead and try get him to raise.

The river i prefer a c/c - you dont have enough money to push him off a split and i dont see him calling with a hand worse then yours, but he might try and bluff if he has absolutely nothing, seems to be the only chance you have of getting any extra value

i dont think c/f is an option getting 3-1

Yeah, I think you have to fire the river. You're too shallow to check/fold, and you probably get called by a set more often than you induce a bluff by checking. I do feel like it's pretty rare for him to call the river without a straight though. This is one of those hands where it doesn't matter much what you do because most of the the time you're either splitting or he's not putting another dollar in.

As for the earlier streets, I think the turn's super-standard and I like the flop lead, leaving the only question what to do when raised. That's a spot where I like reraising against most opponents, but can't really say what's right against rsa without knowing more about game flow and his barreling frequencies.

Why not c/c then? Furthermore you get to see his hand and he might once in a while try to represent nut straight without having it... Maybe not often but still.

If you bet i dont think he calls worse than a split, so youre not really gaining anything from it. I he is a player that likes thin hero calls, then I might consider leading...

I think 3-betting the maximum on the flop is the superior play here given stacks, board and that you are OOP.

shove river as played.

as for turn play, c/c, c/f, c/r or lead as far as optimal line?

Definitely like the turn lead. You're ahead of his range and the hands that are behind are almost never betting if you check.

c/r on the turn is prob ambitious as he likely doesn't bet worse than nuts after you call his flop raise. Sticky river spot, id prob stick in a $3k bet in the heat of the moment to try get him off a split, ... 99TJ calls turn and folds river but not a whole lot else. I think its hard to fault any line on the river and it should really come down to the game flow/your read.

I've never played higher than 10/20 regularly and I dont play HU lol but I think knowing the villain is very important here also , and im sure you know him best so this looks like a check fold but I think it has to be based on your read.

Quick question on preflop: This is usually a fold for me preflop, just curious what makes it a call for you?

I'd usually be shipping it in on that flop but I could be convinced other lines have merit.

On the river: from the action so far it seems unlikely he's got QJxx or KQxx, so I think betting has a good shot at getting him off a chop.

not a particularly close play preflop. pair+hearts+connectors...and gordo is pretty LAG

I like the flop , turn I think checking and calling might be better than leading .

What do you guys think of a flop 3bet/call shove obv?

I like the turn lead also, although at first I thought it was terrible.

River I think a c/f is good betting seems suicidal under basically any circumstances unless u think he will always fold a chop, in which case id jam

flop i kinda think 3betting the flop is better than flatting, but its kinda hard to mess up on the flop

3betting flop is fine but at this point, I felt like my hand was too big to be 3betting as he was going to be folding all of his bluffs/semi-bluffs, maybe loading off another barrel if the board paired and I checked, and obviously just getting it in with T7 and most likely 57. He is likewise for sure always jamming QJxx on the turn after I bet. So basically, it seemed like the majority of his flatting range on the turn is going to be pairs/sets with hearts in there, some small % of the time, the J-high straight, and an even smaller % of the time, the T-high straight. Looking back on the hand, it almost seems like how often I should be betting this river as a bluff depends on what hands I think he is capable of raising the flpo with and then flatting my turn lead. In retrospect, I see something like TTxx, with or without hearts, being a pretty decent amount of his range on the turn.. anyone else get this sense?

Good post. I probably shove as well and hope for a hero call from something like set+fd, or possibly fold him off a chop. I really don't see him having much Qxxx here.

Gordo, you really think he folds the J-hi straight for <1/2 pot? That really sounds like a stretch to me.

FWIW, when I've heard hold'em players talk about "range merging", I've always thought it was ******ed and that the immediate EV lost in the play pretty much always outweighed the metagame benefits, but this feels like a good spot for it.

This would be my standard line. Otherwise I take Iggy's line. He has it, he has it. God bless him.

It's obviously a bit hard to evaluate your turnlead without having hands-on insight in how the dynamics of those "moves" work out in your match. However, I think in a general sense, "combination-betting" (meaning as working both as a valuebet and as a semibluff against villains likely range) is best used in a context where villains non-fold action is fairly descriptive for his range... In this point, he's gonna flat a very very large portion of his range (mostly likely anything besides QJ) and that's partly what complicates the best river action. There are a number of worse cards though..

As for this specific river, I think c/f'ing is the best option. He's not folding J high straights, he doesn't call with a set, he prolly doesn't have a split, and he doesn't bluff missed fds.

Check/call, it's your only chance to win more money from worse hands. The only exception is maybe a T-hi straight, but that might even bet when you check. It's also not much of his range as he'd have to have specifically 7654 or A765.

why would he check call? tiger, what hands do you put him on after he raises flop and flats turn than turns into a bluff on the river. he is pushing his straight and checking his sets because he knows gordo is not folding better hands. so what about pushing river? i mean his hands are probably flop made straights, sets, wraps, etc. and since you probably chop with a lot of straights except the turn nuts (except if he had exactly TJQK/TJQA which are really small part of his flop calling range imo), you might even fold out some chops that way. with that much money in the pot already i dont think id be able to fold river the way the hand played, so yeah. id shove. shove > c/f > c/c?

I think I'm in the "shove because you can't ever fold and he's more likely to hero call than to bluff" camp.

I agree except he didn't call he raised in position.. this change anything for you?

Are you ever flatting TJQK/TJQA to a flop raise? Somehow I doubt it (with these stacks), and if he thinks so perhaps a river jam is really good as he could convince himself to hero call with a set.