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Tough plo spot Tough plo spot

07-25-2020 , 07:09 AM
The game was 4 handed it was 2/4 with 8 straddle. L

I'm in BB with AAKK ss. Villains stack is about 2k. He's a very good aggressive player with a loose 3 bet calling range. I have him covered. Villain raises button sb fold bb calls. I 3 bet pot to roughly 110, villian calls, bb folds. Hu to the flop A56 rainbow. Knowing he likely calls with many rundowns I full pot the flop rough 230 he calls. Turn is 7 board still rainbow. Pot is about 830 and villain has an spr of 2 with about 1700. What would you do here? Would you have played early streets differently?
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07-25-2020 , 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCEBRUCE
The game was 4 handed it was 2/4 with 8 straddle. L



I'm in BB with AAKK ss. Villains stack is about 2k. He's a very good aggressive player with a loose 3 bet calling range. I have him covered. Villain raises button sb fold bb calls. I 3 bet pot to roughly 110, villian calls, bb folds. Hu to the flop A56 rainbow. Knowing he likely calls with many rundowns I full pot the flop rough 230 he calls. Turn is 7 board still rainbow. Pot is about 830 and villain has an spr of 2 with about 1700. What would you do here? Would you have played early streets differently?
Isnt this pretty much a common hand? check the turn and see what he does.
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07-26-2020 , 02:19 PM
Gotta check here and play turns. Gotta let him bet worse value hands like sets and bluff hands with a 7 in it and a pair. Can't fold turn as played
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07-26-2020 , 03:21 PM
I think potting flop is suboptimal. If the reason is that he'll call a wrap anyhow then it really doesn't make sense, because you're not pushing (much of) an equity edge vs the wrap and he can play the hand perfectly in a bloated pot

You're gonna want to bet A56r with your entire 3b range I'd guess, so size down would be standard. Like, 1/3rdish pot
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07-27-2020 , 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Loctus
I think potting flop is suboptimal. If the reason is that he'll call a wrap anyhow then it really doesn't make sense, because you're not pushing (much of) an equity edge vs the wrap and he can play the hand perfectly in a bloated pot

You're gonna want to bet A56r with your entire 3b range I'd guess, so size down would be standard. Like, 1/3rdish pot
This.

We down-bet OOP in heads-up pots when we flop monsters and our opponents ranges are narrowed to avoid pot-bloat.

I might go 1/2 pot since we are OOP instead of 1/3 pot.
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07-27-2020 , 05:54 PM
Agree on the sizing comments - potting is really bad because of the implications for our entire range - not just when we smash the flop.

Mixing in a few checks here can also be quite nice (though better with flush redraw)
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08-08-2020 , 03:15 AM
SPR was 9. SPR is only for flop. On turn, you have about 2 PSB remaining. For sure, flop size too big. 1/3 is pretty standard but we want to find the best size to give us a psb left on turn and river. As played, check/jam or check/ call based on sizing.
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08-08-2020 , 04:49 AM
With this spot my pot cbet range includes all 2 pairs, sets, and pair and draws, wrap, AKxx. So checking this turn does not mean our hand is face up AA.

With this turn, it's a simple check and call. And on non paired river, check and assive if opponent has the balls to bluff.

The problem most weak players have is

1. You only 3b w AA.

2. You only cbet pot w AA. Making playing exploitative against you very simple.
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08-08-2020 , 10:20 AM
How on earth would checking the turn make our hand face-up as AA?

There's much less incentive to bet the turn given there's no flush draw out there, even if there's a few dangerous river straights. Check is the obvious play, with the intention of calling or jamming but probably just calling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paratrooper99
SPR was 9. SPR is only for flop. On turn, you have about 2 PSB remaining. For sure, flop size too big. 1/3 is pretty standard but we want to find the best size to give us a psb left on turn and river. As played, check/jam or check/ call based on sizing.
SPR is not just for flop, it's a concept that can be useful on every street, including the turn. But you do raise or at least imply an important feature of bet-sizing, which is not just that we want to have a balanced c-bet sizing, but to set up a reasonable bet-size for future streets such that we can get all-in while offering our opponent the right odds. OP seems a little mixed up on his pot sizes but assuming the pot is 230 and we have 1900 left, halfpot or less means we'll have to pot then near pot the river to get all-in, so if you think villain is likely to pay off his whole stack (which seems unlikely here) you should be betting bigger. Given villain is described as 'very good', too big a bet may tip his spidey senses, so the ability to get all-in comfortably is not as important a concept, and I would probably bet $100 to $125.
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08-08-2020 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazz
How on earth would checking the turn make our hand face-up as AA?



There's much less incentive to bet the turn given there's no flush draw out there, even if there's a few dangerous river straights. Check is the obvious play, with the intention of calling or jamming but probably just calling.







SPR is not just for flop, it's a concept that can be useful on every street, including the turn. But you do raise or at least imply an important feature of bet-sizing, which is not just that we want to have a balanced c-bet sizing, but to set up a reasonable bet-size for future streets such that we can get all-in while offering our opponent the right odds. OP seems a little mixed up on his pot sizes but assuming the pot is 230 and we have 1900 left, halfpot or less means we'll have to pot then near pot the river to get all-in, so if you think villain is likely to pay off his whole stack (which seems unlikely here) you should be betting bigger. Given villain is described as 'very good', too big a bet may tip his spidey senses, so the ability to get all-in comfortably is not as important a concept, and I would probably bet $100 to $125.
read my post again...It would be face up AA if you only 3 bet AA and only cbet pot with AA. Weak players dont 3b mid run downs oop.
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08-11-2020 , 11:58 AM
As others have indicated .. "Who's calling a pot bet on the Flop?" And then you are in a bloated pot OOP when a scare card comes out .. making it a WAWB spot.

It's very natural to think 'deny equity' by max betting but winning more chips more often (by betting less) and protecting your stack if the Board gets sticky is better for your long term game.

If you are more comfortable with pot betting, then mix in a few checks here to see if you can get a bet out of the V .. and then let the stack sizes take care of themselves for equity denial. That way you get some value and you have a better chance of them folding to a larger pot bet c/r with their speculative draws.

I agree, if you are only playing this style with super nutted hands, then it'll be tougher for you to build a stack with your whole range. GL

PS ... This is a perfect spot where NL thinking should prevail. Would you bet 'pot' in a NL hand with this Board?
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