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Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts?

03-19-2018 , 07:02 PM
2/5 PLO, villain is extremely loose aggressive and loves to gamble/shove with draws, even non-nut draws often when HU.

Villain ($750). Calls 100% of 3bets if he is initial raiser. 4bets all AAxx, AAss, AAds, KKds.
Hero ($2200). Villain sees hero as tight preflop, willing to stick it in light post flop.

Hero in cutoff, dealt AAT8
Button straddles to $10.
SB, BB fold.
Villain (UTG) raises to $35. MP calls. Hero raises to $125. Only villain calls.

Flop ($300) AJ2
Villain checks, hero checks.
Turn ($300) T

Villain leads out ($300), with $325 behind. Hero goes all in.
Thoughts on play?
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-20-2018 , 02:15 AM
Seems fine. Checking back that dry of a flop is good. Turn card is bad but there's no decision to be made now.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-20-2018 , 03:16 PM
Except for the two Aces of Diamonds, the hand was played fine.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-20-2018 , 07:03 PM
makes no sense to check the flop. bet 125$
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-20-2018 , 08:05 PM
1. What is your 3b range from CO? I hope it’s relatively wide if this guy is in the pot.

2. On the flop, cb a healthy chunk of your 3b range — it doesn’t matter if you have it or not.

3. The flop check back was odd without some sort of read or explanation. Unless villain has a dead read on you and you were mixing it up, this gives your non-set CBs no teeth.

4. As played, the turn is gross. It’s tough to tell how gross due to the double [Ad]. Fold or shove both seem acceptable (specifically, equally bad), but we are in this spot due to poor flop play.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-20-2018 , 11:40 PM
The flop should read AJ2

I think V puts me on a lot of AA with my raise pre, and I didn't want to scare him off.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-21-2018 , 07:20 PM
Not wanting to scare villain off with a bet on a board that is extremely good for your range is a bad way to think about it. You're opening yourself up to being exploited. If you check this board with nutted hands like top set what does it say about your betting range on this board? Generally with the huge range advantage you should be betting this flop with a decent frequency, both your strong hands & some air. and ofcourse checking sometimes as well. The main merit to checking hands this strong is to allow yourself to also check air and not get barreled off the medium- weak strength equity in your range going into turns.

Tldr you want to think about what you're doing with your full range of hands not just trying to justify play X or play Y with your specific hand at the time.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-22-2018 , 12:35 PM
The board is really good for your perceived range. You should of bet flop - but you don't have to bet very big.

I would bet $100-$150

I don't mind a check if the board is like 882 and you flop trips but even than i'm probably going for a $100 bet. I think I only check super locked down boards where we flop full houses. I might even check a flop like 976 where we flop the goods, but it looks really bad for our range.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-22-2018 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
The board is really good for your perceived range. You should of bet flop - but you don't have to bet very big.

I would bet $100-$150

I don't mind a check if the board is like 882 and you flop trips but even than i'm probably going for a $100 bet. I think I only check super locked down boards where we flop full houses. I might even check a flop like 976 where we flop the goods, but it looks really bad for our range.
I don't understand this line of thinking. If I flop a nutted hand on 976 where it looks like I shouldn't have much, I'm more likely to bet it. Looks like I'm FOS, and would expect to get a bunch of action from a hand that beat AA, as well as semi-bluffs.

Why is that wrong?
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-22-2018 , 03:29 PM
the only good argument for checking back is the effective stacks are so short and you hope he bluffs at the pot on the turn.
you have a clear ship when he bets the turn for basically a min raise.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote
03-28-2018 , 02:00 AM
Replying to original post:

Tapping the turn against this LAG is a no-brainer. In fact, that would be the standard play against everybody except Mother Theresa, or someone who knows your 3-bet range is dominated with paint.

Wondering why all the "range" discussion, when against this opponent who cannot "exploit". Checking for the reason of balancing your check range is absurd; why would you try to make this LAG bet less than he already does? You want him to bet and take your small equity hands, as that encourages him to bet into your high equity hands.

The LAG is likely to have flopped a gut shot that you want to charge him for. Checking, though, does encourage him to make a little something on the turn and bet into you. I note that giving the "free card" doesn't hurt, since he is going to call or raise with his gut shot anyway.
Thoughts on raise-shoving with 2nd nuts? Quote

      
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