Quote:
Originally Posted by SocraticGambler
We all make mistakes, at least you recognize what yours was.
Middle set in PLO on a non-straight board without an Ace showing (when raised pre-flop) is pretty damn strong - why call pre-flop with a hand like this unless you want to flop a multi-draw or a set?
Looks like you just over-thought it; I feel you made a mistake not leading the flop, you are on the cut-off and it's checked to you with only one player behind so very unlikely you are against 10-10 anywhere but any K/Q/J/8/7/6 makes a straight and there are 6 players in the pot so it's likely those will all make a straight for someone.
If button had checked behind you would've been giving free turn to out-draw you when you should be jamming as hard as possible. Sometimes everyone folds, sometimes a wrap or 55/1010 check-raise all-in, sometimes a couple guys call and you get to see a turn in position and are least last to act.
All better options then check-folding; I'd say my preference for this scenario would be:
1. Bet Flop
2. Check-Raise Flop
3. Check-Call Flop
But yeah I'd never be folding, especially for $150 this deep against a dude playing fast and loose - sometimes you get cold-decked and sometimes you get out-drawn but you lose so much value by not jamming, gotta get that Fold Equity and tax the draws in multi-way raised pots.
Now if I bet pot, button calls and then someone that limped earlier 3-bets all-in we are in a tricky spot but still don't have a choice without an INSANE read (could easily be against something like KQJJ); if you are going to play A997 double-suited for a pre-flop raise then flopping middle set on a non-Ace high board (with no straight or flush) is about as good as it gets with that hand.
The value in your hand is all in sets and multi-draws, it's not in flopping a flush or a straight. If you flop a nut-flush you won't get paid majority of the time, if you flop a straight with 97 you could be getting free-rolled, be coin-flipping against a set + higher draw, or just have the sucker-end and be getting scooped.
You are saying you need to flop 9's full or a nut multi-draw (i.e. 86x with two diamonds) to feel comfortable...that's asking a lot of the deck to be consistently profitable with this hand, it just isn't flopping that hard for you 97% of the time.
Yeah, betting the damn thing straight out in cutoff is the obvious solution. I swear I got sidetracked by the button guy coming out of his telephone playing (I had just asked him a few hands before if he was playing on line, he said yes), ... and now he came out of the phone and also tipped like obv he was betting. So in that sense it gave me a perfect check-raise scenario, getting a bunch of people in with about a 40% equity in hand if both wraps (big and medium) are out (but no trip 10s). It was perfect but I didn't want to play middle set for stack, top set is tough enough. But damn ... calling 150 against 750 in that spot is so easy it ridiculous. But I had one foot out the door. Had just been thru that at the hold'em table and lost stack on last two deals (Q-Q and A-Ks).
It was overcaution, which I"m very guilty of when ahead and late at night. Thanks for great input. Your 1-2-3 options are perfect, 4th option was dumb dumb but probably not off the charts idiotic like I first overreacted.