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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

View Poll Results: Should PLO and NLHE be treated separately?
Yes, they should be treated as two different games. 414 96.50%
No, they should be treated as the same game for all issues. 15 3.50%
Voters: 429. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:59 PM   #351
archaeopteryx
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
1 BI = 100 bb,..
=> r~18% :shocked
You should take 1 buy-in = minimum buy-in allowed by PokerStars = 40-50 bb for PLO. 100 bb is too high for this model.

In the limit of buy-in -> infinity the model would result in rake = edge of AAKK(ds) over X random hands.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:08 PM   #352
StarHydra
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

What we need is a huge database on the micros and up to 0.25/0.5.

AFAIK stars isn't giving results at those player meetings (or the visitors are not allowed to speak about them) since the rake rape must stay a "secret".
So we should be a move ahead of them and get as much information as we can.

I'd like to do some further research at said limits for the distribution of winning/losing players but based on groups with stats.
The idea is to make several groups of players (e.g. good player group with vpip 24-28 / pfr 14-18 etc...) and have the results in bb/100 for every group.
This will be a whole lot more accurate than a simple distribution of winning/losing players.

I have made such groups for mid-high stakes and they work pretty well however i lack the HH on micro-low limits.

Therefore you guys can send me your (or observed) HH to plorake@yahoo.com
If you have concerns you can edit your SN (i think notepad++ is fast for that) but I honestly don't care for your results on such low limits and they will only serve the rake purpose.
Also all SNs will stay anonymous and not be shown in screenshots.
Please make sure the HHs are as .zip and the file isn't larger than 20MB per mail.

I'll post a detailed report once I've got a good sample size.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:38 PM   #353
heh
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

There's no edge in PLO, since regs lost money on average in 2012. Before rake is considered*.

So unless you want to build your model around the very top players (of whom there are some) to make statements about the games being beatable...


* based on seven digit amount of hands from plo100 @ stars from 2012.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:14 PM   #354
Daxxar
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

I just quit playing PLO on Pokerstars due to the high rake. I am now playing on Svenska Spel with a 2.5% rake and a cap at 15SEK which equals $2.5. Saving a ton of money.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:11 PM   #355
alexo18
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Do u have to be swedish to play there?
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:23 PM   #356
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

yea
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:45 PM   #357
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:13 AM   #358
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrw8419 View Post
stars swapping out short tables for 20bb cap in hu lobby

so ridic, how can they have had any requests for 20bb cap, i'm in favor of cap over short but 20bb is just insane. Such a rake monster for them where no one can win. Who told them that this would be a good idea or that its what the players wanted? Bahh sending an email off, I'd suggest others to as well
What in the name of **** Pokerstars, seriously?

This CAP discussion was once again taken up with NL players, but not with PLO players.

Feedback Requested – Potential Changes to PokerStars Heads Up Offerings

The exact thing we asked for was a separate discussion for these 2 different games, and yet we got butt****ed on the conversion again and the change was done without any "heads up" from Pokerstars. Pokerstars was well aware of this thread and the need for separate discussion before starting that thread on NLHE HU Forum.

And successfully dodged the feedback again. Hats off to you for consistency.

Also, I'm aware of dozens of emails sent to Pokerstars complaining about PLO rake and how that is too high, when is that due for a change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Nick View Post
Heads Up CAP

The requests we received for Heads Up CAP tables have mostly come from player emails. Even though the requests did not primarily come from players that frequent this sub-forum, I wanted both to inform you of the possibility of this change and solicit any potential negative consequences of the change that we may not have foreseen.

Whether or not we offer Heads Up CAP tables, we are leaning toward discontinuing our offering of 20-50bb tables.


Heads Up Zoom

We plan on offering Heads Up Zoom in the near future. While we understand not everyone who plays Heads Up will want to play Heads Up Zoom, we will be deploying a trial offering as an additional way to play Heads Up.

There is no plan to move to Zoom-only for Heads Up games.


Larger Heads Up Lobby Changes

In regards to King of the Hill or any other large scale lobby changes, while we have committed to developing a solution this year, we are not yet ready to share details of any changes we are considering.

I do expect that any changes we make are unlikely to be similar to existing implementations of KotH.

Additionally, any change we made would not likely prevent two people from setting up a Heads Up match against each other.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:17 AM   #359
joeri
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

20bb cap plo hu tables are just such a terrible rake trap and a stupid game. Terrible again...
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:20 AM   #360
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

it's beyond stupid. i'd love to hear to the logic behind this ****
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:42 AM   #361
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Would be absurd if this is for PLO as well. I assume its just NLHE change that they forgot to specify.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:49 AM   #362
joeri
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Nope, server is restarted and 20bb cap hu is there...
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:02 AM   #363
Mig
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Welcome in 2013 where poker is now played like a casino game. Place your bets gentleman.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:05 AM   #364
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

WTF @ 20bb cap HU tables, that's ridic.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:18 AM   #365
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

It is so stupid raketrap that even worst players won't play it soon.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:13 AM   #366
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

20bb HU CAP games... way to invite the bots PokerStars!!! Another Great decision that will no doubt help solidify to the many other choices you have made to solidify yourselves in history. No doubt when poker is dead and gone in 5 years and in no way justifiable as a sport PS will be one of the major reasons why.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:34 PM   #367
joeri
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

On 0.25-0.50 half the HU plo tables running are cap now. This is rediculous... Regs should just not open these tables. 10$ cap with 0.5$ rake for a 20$ pot...

If stars would just open a blackjack/casino gateway, i wouldn't mind really. It will probably be VERY costly to poker regs, because a lot of money will be gone. But at least people playing some casino game know they will pay a hefty house edge. These cap hu tables are not that obvious to most recs.

And it really makes me mad that they didn't even ask for any PLO feedback (not that feedback helped in the hu thread), and that they just implemented a 20bb cap plo hu game. Thats just a terrible game.

I'm a long time Stars fan, but if a viable alternative emerges over the coming years i'm not so sure anymore if i will stay at stars...
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:54 PM   #368
superjm
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

This is horrible, whats next, coinflip at 5% rake?? Greedy will hurt you pokerstars
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #369
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

They want all the monies...
Dying market, they grab what they can?
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:33 PM   #370
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

i like it because i hope this kill hu tables. i hope soon theres no hu tables running on pokerstars. games would be a lot better for both pros and amateurs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:38 PM   #371
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by superjm View Post
whats next, coinflip at 5% rake??
Fwiw the MPN offers 'All-in Carnage' MTTs with 10% rake that are basically coinflips (all players are put all-in every hand, well, it's safer to say 'in both hands' ) but still attract 70+ players every peak hour and almost never have overlays, and I'm pretty sure not everyone uses them only to launder non-cashable player points for extra 1% cashback (without putting effort into playing a real MTT) like I did. So, as you see, poker lotteries are attracting a sizeable audience despite their stupidity, might be the death of poker

+1 to urubu's request to eliminate HU altogether: fishes bust out slower at 6-max.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:55 PM   #372
Borys313
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Majority of hu PLO running now is CAP, apparently Stars knew better what fishes want.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:10 PM   #373
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

and yet everyone still opens these cap tables. guys let not open them! its not like you give up much anyway.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:26 PM   #374
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Wow, what a fail by Stars! Again!
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #375
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Re: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by urubu111 View Post
i like it because i hope this kill hu tables. i hope soon theres no hu tables running on pokerstars. games would be a lot better for both pros and amateurs.
Yes lets take away most of the optional games, the world was much better when there was only one black car to be bought, who needs choises.

Lets stop wasting money on production , lets have one and one offering only, chockolat isecream should be enough, why offer strawberry, if they want iscream, chockolade should be good enough
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