PLO600 vs shortstack - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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PLO600 vs shortstack

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12-28-2011 , 03:08 PM

hotcocacola

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 644

$3/$6 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 3 players -

Hero (BTN): $611.00
civ888civ (SB): $380.50
Kaz127 (BB): $180.00

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BTN with T

Hero raises to $18, civ888civ calls $15, Kaz127 raises to $72, Hero does what?

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12-28-2011 , 03:11 PM

ChuckBass

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,908

shove

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12-28-2011 , 04:28 PM

urubu111

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,778

call. see the flop.

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12-28-2011 , 08:52 PM

donkeykong2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,567

yeah i d call to, i d rather have the third guy in as well with this hand.

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12-28-2011 , 10:18 PM

hotcocacola

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 644

is fold a bad move in this spot?

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12-28-2011 , 11:31 PM

David123

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,818

call to get villain2 in. but i mean it's close. you should be ahead of villain2s range very often, and get some money in pre that folds out a decent amount of flops i guess.

folding is gay.

now i dont know this SS, good shortstacks dont only shove AAxx KKxx ace rundown hands, so you could be in great shape some amount versus medium rundowns. You'd need some real good reasons to fold JJTT pre imo.

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12-29-2011 , 12:15 AM

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckBass

shove

easily the worst option

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12-29-2011 , 12:45 AM

ChuckBass

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,908

If SB folds its probably breakeven, assuming BB's 3betting a reasonable range. If SB calls its obviously very +EV.

Convince me how calling can be very profitable.

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12-29-2011 , 12:48 AM

Doorbread

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,750

we will have jjtt in a multiway pot

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12-29-2011 , 01:12 AM

#10

ChuckBass

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,908

I assume the only reason you all wanna call is to keep the other guy in. If it was a hu pot am I right in thinking everyone else either folds or ships, depending on his 3bet % and game flow etc. Or do ppl call this hu?

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12-29-2011 , 01:19 AM

#11

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckBass

If SB folds its probably breakeven, assuming BB's 3betting a reasonable range. If SB calls its obviously very +EV.

Convince me how calling can be very profitable.

lol, no. if you shove your best case is SB folding and you're at best breaking even in that spot. you have a little over 40%, you need 43.2% to break even.

if SB calls you're breaking even in the main pot and losing in the sidepot (or breaking even if SB is terrible).

folding is slightly better, calling is clearly best ainec.

even if you give them wider (bad) ranges, you still make way more by calling.

Last edited by stinkypete; 12-29-2011 at 01:25 AM.

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12-29-2011 , 12:20 PM

#12

ChuckBass

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,908

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete

lol, no. if you shove your best case is SB folding and you're at best breaking even in that spot. you have a little over 40%, you need 43.2% to break even.

if SB calls you're breaking even in the main pot and losing in the sidepot (or breaking even if SB is terrible).

folding is slightly better, calling is clearly best ainec.

even if you give them wider (bad) ranges, you still make way more by calling.

How have you arrived at this? If SB calls his range is heavily weighted towards hands that do well multiway vs the ranges that us and BB are representing, AA/KK/BBBB etc. So he's gonna call with his 4 card type hands that we dominate.

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12-29-2011 , 12:35 PM

#13

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckBass

too lazy to put in actual ranges but there's no way you can be ahead in the sidepot unless he's calling way too loose when you're behind a 15%-2% range with two aces dead.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: A

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
JcTcJhTd	49.54%	294,109	6,249
15%-2%	50.46%	299,642	6,249

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12-29-2011 , 12:38 PM

#14

ChuckBass

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,908

His calling range is nothing like a %15-2% range. He's not calling with KK and QQ when SB or us has AA so often. He's playing hands that play well mutliway vs 2 big pairs.

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12-29-2011 , 12:45 PM

#15

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckBass

His calling range is nothing like a %15-2% range. He's not calling with KK and QQ when SB or us has AA so often. He's playing hands that play well mutliway vs 2 big pairs.

if you're shoving as loose as JJTT he's obviously getting it in with KK.

the 15%-2% is obv not perfect, but there's also a ton of AA in the 2% that he can have so it goes both ways.

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