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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 02-23-2019, 11:45 PM   #1
HUMBLE.
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Thumbs up PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

PLO600 6-max Online

Stacks:
Hero: $900
Villain: Covers

Hero: AAK5

UTG folds, MP folds, CO(Villain) raises to 21, BTN folds, SB(Hero) re-raises to 72, BB folds, CO(Villain) calls.

Pot(153)

Flop: Q29

Hero checks, Villain bets 153. Hero calls.

Pot(459)

Turn: Q297

Hero checks, Villain bets 459. Hero...?


Reads: Villain plays literally 100%VPIP. Have seen a cold call of Q222ss. Has quickly dismantled the regulars and other recs into a 7-buyin upswing by hitting miracles. Lots of chasing to the river and calling huge bets with few outs. Pot seems to be his preferred bet sizing and he is not afraid to use it. Does weird stuff like min-reraise pre. When I gave my friend who was railing me what I thought was his range, he replied, "he doesn't have a range, he's just clicking buttons."

In one hand, headsup, I 3bet villain with QTJ7ds from the SB and checked to villain twice, and villain was happy to check down in position, bottom pair on a Q2476 runout.

On another hand, 3-way, I had A995 vs his AJ35 where he c/called down AQT45 after I fired flop, turn and river when checked to in position.


And here we are on the turn. Was there a better way to play the flop? What to do now on the turn?


Thanks.

Last edited by HUMBLE.; 02-24-2019 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 02-24-2019, 02:36 AM   #2
+EVillain
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

i think it all boils down to the questions: would he do this with QJT-JT8-KKx, or does he have two pair/set here? realistically where do we stand versus his donkey kong range, and how likely are we to be good here?

personally im probably giving up on this turn, but i wasnt there and i never played this guy. it just feels like realistically we are behind, and weve only committed a couple hundred so far but we are about to be priced in if we call
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:26 AM   #3
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

clear fold. You're either barely ahead or considerably behind. Not sure what the question is?
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:05 PM   #4
organdonor4cash
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

This is a very interesting hand.

My instinct would be to fold here. But that would have been the case on most turns other than a 2,3,4,A or diamond. That is about 30% of turns.

Like we are happy on about 17-20% of turns, we tolerate another 10% and we hate our life in the other 70% of cases.
With that logic, that would mean we should have folded the flop. That, I find way too weak!

So could we have raised the flop? That only you know. He seems to be comparatively reasonable post flop, unorthodox sure, but not randomly clicking buttons. But from just 3 examples I cant really tell.

You said he goes pot pot pot a lot, but showed two examples of two passive hands check/give up, and one c/c all the way. Have you seen any hands show down where we went pot pot pot?

If you think He'd ship JJt9 then by all means, raise. If you think he'll stack off with any queen, then raising isn't that bad.

if he only stacks off with two pair or wrap, then it's suicidal.


I would have probably just cbet/stack off against him tbh. Gives him a chance to bluff, don't know how often he would do that, you'd have to know.

Last edited by organdonor4cash; 02-25-2019 at 12:08 PM. Reason: offer alternative line.
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:33 PM   #5
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

If you're comfortable stacking off with AA on Q297, you've either leveld the **** out of yourself, or your villain is so crazy that you shouldn't need to question your decision enough to make a post.
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Old 02-25-2019, 02:03 PM   #6
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

Easy shove vs 100% range.
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:24 PM   #7
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

Some regulars are telling me to c/fold flop, but if he is crazy, just c/r flop and get it in. Other said it's a snap c/r get it in.

I was thinking of other lines I could have taken on flop. Everyone like checking here? I thought checking was pretty good but could be convinced otherwise.

In my mind, I thought I could just wait for a better spot, but someone was quick to point out that there might not be one because villain will have lost all his money by then...

Also, for those that like to c/r flip, as played, would you now get it in on a "blank" turn?

Last edited by HUMBLE.; 02-25-2019 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:14 PM   #8
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

I don't understand why everyone is so much in the automatic check mode. Him calling too often does not hurt us here, it helps: a wider calling range improves our equity. We likely still have the best hand, so bet. If he ships it, stack off. If he has it, good luck to him.

If you don't want to do that, then you shouldn't 3bet aces oop against a mad man. If you want to pot control, then pot control all the way. Don't bloat the pot and then try to put the genie back in the bottle, that won't work.

@Verdant Devil: c/f flop is leveling yourself. He opens all hands, probably continues a fair chunk against our 3bet.
Then we show weakness by not c-betting and he pounces.

He could do that with a joker, a monopoly get out of jail free card, a Uno reverse card, and a cards against humanity card.

We showed weakness, he bets. It's as simple as that.

To prevent this problem, we cbet and then depending on the reads, we decide if we ship or fold. If he just calls our cbet, we'd bet again and price ourselves in.

Yes it's high variance, but from a strategic point of view, that's the way to play aces against any four.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:41 PM   #9
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

based on those example hands it looks like he is capable of taking passive options, he is probably betting fairly linear.

We are also at SPR 5.5, and we dont cover many runnouts. A case could be made for any strategic option on the flop, but none of us can really answer this question accurately without knowing more about his tendencies

without knowing who this guy is, my feeling is that even if he is clueless he can still have Q9, wraps, 2P, sets or combos of these. right now we have a bare overpair and a little backdoor EQ. what are we hoping that he has that we are still ahead of? A bare Q? a wrap? would he PSB double barrel with these hands?

if this guy is a true neanderthal then taking an aggressive option on the flop might be best, but if we dont GII on the flop the turn SPR will still probably be fairly high and I wouldnt be completely ready to rip the rest in because no turn is really a blank with his PF range

Last edited by +EVillain; 02-25-2019 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 02-25-2019, 06:42 PM   #10
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

bet the flop
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:54 AM   #11
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

Just check pot the flop if you think he's that light.

The question is, just because he's light pre, does he stab pot light too, and that's a tough one to answer.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:11 AM   #12
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

You put yourself in this position by not betting the flop, now you're a contender in the game I like to call: Guess-my-hand-*****.
I prefer to get stacks in with when I know I'm ahead, not playing this guessing game, fold and let him stack off with 8 high flushes against your nut flush or something
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Old 03-04-2019, 12:21 PM   #13
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

lol @ clear fold. Why even 3 bet this hand if we're just going to fold when we don't improve to a monster on a dry board anyway against this player type?

I agree with other people in that if this guy just mashes pot, we should exploit by going for thinner value x/r. Like here.

As played, we need 40.5% equity to get it in here. Against 100 VPIP, this guy could have bare JT, or bare T8. or like KJ9 or some ****. It's hard to range out everything this guy could be betting, but even giving him logical strong hands, I compute our equity at 41%. And if he has some insane things like 8753 that's now a pair of sevens (seems like this could be the player type that just likes to bomb), our equity improves more.

I do agree that we should be betting this flop. He's going to float us extremely wide.
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Old 03-04-2019, 04:28 PM   #14
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

If you bet flop, do we just mash pot on unimproved turns and rivers, which will often be the case with our AAxx hands?
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:06 PM   #15
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

yep, pot and pray on anything that isnt a KQJT98
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:08 AM   #16
Travbana
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE. View Post
If you bet flop, do we just mash pot on unimproved turns and rivers, which will often be the case with our AAxx hands?
7 is pretty much as blank as it gets, I'm pot/calling turn (if i had cbet the flop)
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:50 AM   #17
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

seems a pretty clear spot to fold and nut peddle this guy because he will pay you off. don't see the point in guessing games and thin value vs whales, easier ways to get his stack
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:47 PM   #18
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Re: PLO600 6-max. A Whale of a Time

I think there’s merit to a clickback minraise pre if you think it might induce a raise back and/or keep your perceived range versus the opponent wider. Position is huge in PLO and as mentioned you are in the SB and will have a 5.5SPR if your pot sized 3B is flatted. If your opponent was incredibly passive and faceup postflop then perhaps it would make sense but it sounds like he can bluff which puts you in an unprofitable position SPR>4.5ish I’d say.
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