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Old 07-24-2017, 03:41 AM   #76
Doorbread
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

Social ineptitude is the problem. Asking your average young grinder to be engaging may not be natural behaviours that are well practiced. Tech just amplifies this in a person. Poker room has to adapt to cultural shifts or there will be a dropping off point in its success.

I'm probably more guilty than tech use of anyone at bellagio this summer (had multiple iPads running at some points) but I make sure to entertain those that it would benefit for me to entertain. Letting VIPs sweat hands, getting them talking about things that they enjoy, proposing small side/props, etc (let fish swipe for you on tinder if they comment on it. They have a blast)

I don't think people who played with me would be bothered or say that they had a negative experience playing with me
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:27 AM   #77
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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^ I don't care about headphones as much as I do about tech at the table. Don't understand why casinos still allow phones, laptops, tablets or anything else of the sort. It might be annoying for the floor staff to enforce, but the benefit to the players and the house outweighs that many fold.
This.

I've stated this for a long time in conversations around 2p2 and in my own blog. I wouldn't say I'm 'the authority' on live poker and high stakes live poker (trynhit for instance would be more of one) but I've played for a long time in many cities and poker rooms throughout the world. Tech kills games.

I wouldn't ban the use of iPhones because VIPs often like to use their phones at the table but I think making people have to stand up for prolonged use makes sense.

Ipads though and laptops etc at the tables should 100% be banned to generate action and to be fair to the gameplay and participation of the games. People playing PokerMaster etc at the table they create a bad environment and slow game pace (sure some will argue they don't, that they multitask well etc), however overall it's true. Plus it looks bad to VIPs, they come to play and have fun, dust some money etc. They're, i'm sure, already aware they're sitting with mainly pro's. They enjoy the challenge. If I'm a VIP though and I see a young pro sat with 2 ipads, playing poker on them, whilst he's meant to be in a game with me, well it'd just be totally off putting, for obvious reasons.

I think if you're willing to travel around and appreciate that's what is required to find the best spots then live plo is very much alive and well.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:16 AM   #78
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

Doorbread, you basically are the only one who didnt slow down the game tho and still interact with the VIPs, and you act fast... so often you just look up from pokermaster and bet pot so you would not slow down the game.

Many others were slow as **** and on top give no action.

Im all for listening to 1 earbud in (altho i never do... since we ban headphones in aust lol) but the big chunky headphone pro who give no action is just so bad for games
I get tilted losing to them... i cant think how the vips feel
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:59 AM   #79
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

Only Aussie at the table?
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:12 PM   #80
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

All the live distractions/tech need to go. People who are reading books play less hands. People who are playing games on their phones play less hands. People who are watching movies on tablets play less hands.

I got called to my seat today. As I walk over, seat one is reading a book, seat two is playing Candy Crush on phone and seat three is watching Game of Thrones on tablet. WTF.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:47 PM   #81
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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Everyone always talks about the "young sunglasses and hoody types killing the games" from my experience some of the most miserable people at the table are the 40 year old bitter ass washed up semi pros who are breaking even/losers and hate life/ hate young guns are the ones killing the mood.

The wealthy fish like playing with a young gun that gives action/ bluffs a lot more then they do with a total nit, because they enjoy the feeling the of catching a bluff more then anything else.
I thought people were talking about the young sunglasses and hoody nits who go back to playing Candy Crush or Clash of Clans in between folding with a tight preflop range. I can multi-task and play a hand, play a game on my phone, hold a conversation, and play attention to the football game at the same time.

Inducing bitter ass old dudes to whine (more than usual) is one of the joys of playing PLO live. The holy grail, however, is making one of those young hoody nits playing above their bankroll cry at the table because you sucked out on them.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:49 PM   #82
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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All the live distractions/tech need to go. People who are reading books play less hands. People who are playing games on their phones play less hands. People who are watching movies on tablets play less hands.

I got called to my seat today. As I walk over, seat one is reading a book, seat two is playing Candy Crush on phone and seat three is watching Game of Thrones on tablet. WTF.
Try talking to the people and annoying the crap out of them if they won't talk back. Ask seat two what level he is on. If seat three is watching last season, give out some spoilers.
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:29 PM   #83
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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Try talking to the people and annoying the crap out of them if they won't talk back. Ask seat two what level he is on. If seat three is watching last season, give out some spoilers.
This is what I do. It mostly works. The hardcore nits will still nit it up with their tablets but the casual phone users who are just texting and chatting with friends to pass the time, (which I'm guilty of when the table is boring) will put their phones away and engage. Last night the worst movie watching nit at the table got crushed for like 800bb. It was awesome.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:01 PM   #84
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

SMH... Posts like "PLO will never make traction/be popular" are so out of touch with reality. Once upon a time, stud was the game. 5-card draw was the game. Now, NLH is the game. To think NLH will be 'the game' forever is just delusional.

Seriously, go to a big casino on a Friday/Saturday night, the best games are ALWAYS PLO games. Gamblers LOVE PLO. Drunk people LOVE PLO. People that are stuck that know how to play PLO will play PLO over NLH.

The problem comes when we talk barrier to entry, IE the buyin is a lot for rec players. Any rec player can buy in to their 1/2 or 1/3 NLH for $100 or $200. But sitting down at 1/2/5 PLO games with $200 is nothing, when everybody else is sitting with $500-$2K. It's intimidating for rec players. Plus, it's very easy to lose stacks repeatedly at PLO while making the 'best play' --> discouraging rec players if they need another $500 to rebuy.

The other problem comes when we talk personality at the table. Gamblers are there to have fun. Rec players want to have fun. Drunk people want to have fun. All these stone-faced sore loser a$$holes at live tables fk up the game for everybody. Nobody wants to play with a depressed idiot.

It's possible PLO gets even more popular. Casinos need to start introducing low-limit games like 1/1 or 1/2 PLO, and yes, like Joey said, we need High Stakes Poker to show PLO games.
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:12 PM   #85
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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Originally Posted by rumnchess View Post
Live PLO is growing and arguably even booming across America and in Europe. A few reasons it's doing so well:

- NLH games drying up, becoming nitfests
- NLH regs often unwilling to engage new players
- PLO tables much more jovial atmosphere, more conversations, less sunglasses/hoodie types, less berating of weak players
- More all-ins so even when not involved in pots, people stay engaged/interested
- Four cards are more fun than two
1+ @live PLO
In my local casino in Germany one tables of 5-5€ PLO is most of the time running and at weekends even two tables running well..PLO is and stay always attractiv for some rec player and gambler.
I stopped playing poker for about 4 years and after my break I jumped first to NLH FR and it was a boring nitfest..I tried PLO and found it more interessting and had more fun..
Now I am not playing online anymore, only live and the games are soft there compare to online.
Hope the is some extra boom coming in future.
A interessting discussion btw.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:22 PM   #86
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

5card plo seems like the game of the future
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:43 PM   #87
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

^ Yet to see it offered live in any casino
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:59 PM   #88
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

Its played all over europe, esp in france/spain etc
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:05 PM   #89
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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^ Yet to see it offered live in any casino
MGM in DC its huge, haven't been many other places in a while, maybe it's the exception, but it's a very popular game there with lots of gamble, much more than plo
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:17 AM   #90
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

Bankroll management is so important to PLO that I can't see it becoming too popular until more people deal with it responsibly.


Electronic cards in casinos will increase its popularity dramatically.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:00 PM   #91
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

Most recreational players don't have a designated poker bankroll so brm isn't as influential a factor in popularity of games. Regs will gravitate towards the best games, so whilst it may still take quite some time for it to become anywhere near as popular as nlh, it won't be hindered all too much by brm. What's lacking most is a popular medium to bring plo to the attention of the masses the way that nlh was via televised tournaments and online high stakes cash games.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:16 AM   #92
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

At least nice to see some PLO-action this week covered by PokerGo..The 10$ subscription worth it.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:14 PM   #93
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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Originally Posted by AveeMaria View Post
Most recreational players don't have a designated poker bankroll so brm isn't as influential a factor in popularity of games. Regs will gravitate towards the best games, so whilst it may still take quite some time for it to become anywhere near as popular as nlh, it won't be hindered all too much by brm. What's lacking most is a popular medium to bring plo to the attention of the masses the way that nlh was via televised tournaments and online high stakes cash games.
PLO seems like a natural progression for NL players. When they get bored of the same 2 card game they move to 4 card for more action, and as NL becomes more nitty
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:29 PM   #94
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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Most recreational players don't have a designated poker bankroll so brm isn't as influential a factor in popularity of games. Regs will gravitate towards the best games, so whilst it may still take quite some time for it to become anywhere near as popular as nlh, it won't be hindered all too much by brm. What's lacking most is a popular medium to bring plo to the attention of the masses the way that nlh was via televised tournaments and online high stakes cash games.

I disagree. People don't play PLO because they go broke too fast while they are playing it and that includes NLHE players. The variance is difficult to tolerate and BRM plays a large roll in its popularity because of the tremendous variance. NLHE is a bit more tolerable to most people including NLHE pros.

TV isn't going to work. People keep thinking it'll "catch on," but the lack of popularity really has to do with other factors. As people get better at NLHE, I think PLO will become increasingly popular
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Old 10-02-2017, 09:14 AM   #95
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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I disagree. People don't play PLO because they go broke too fast while they are playing it and that includes NLHE players. The variance is difficult to tolerate and BRM plays a large roll in its popularity because of the tremendous variance. NLHE is a bit more tolerable to most people including NLHE pros.

TV isn't going to work. People keep thinking it'll "catch on," but the lack of popularity really has to do with other factors. As people get better at NLHE, I think PLO will become increasingly popular
What you're inferring is a growth in popularity, not a boom.
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Old 10-02-2017, 09:23 AM   #96
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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What you're inferring is a growth in popularity, not a boom.
A growth in popularity can ultimately lead to boom.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:50 PM   #97
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

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At least nice to see some PLO-action this week covered by PokerGo..The 10$ subscription worth it.
My thoughts exactly.... Just wish they subbed out all the nits... Brought in people like matt kirk to get to game rolling!
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:41 PM   #98
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

I think there is only the GTO argument in favour of PLO, and that is unlikely to last for long, when all know the ranges for plo also. And I don't think gto is all there is to it.

Since PLO became more or less a nitfest, it has been no different to nlh; being the same game (counting out folding to a 3-bet preflop, and more multiway pots) but with 4 starting cards, and a lot less possibilities.

In live games, one can have more action (counting out the full ring postflop nitfest), but there is also the rake issue, and most games are NLH.

Tourneys are NLH.

IMO, PLO is dead and NLH has lasted the test of time, and the only things that change are inside NLH (big-bet holdem).
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:03 AM   #99
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Re: PLO boom still to come according to JNandez

If we look at the pure characteristics of the game the problem of PLO is that at the end of the day it's a variation / complication of HE.
When talking about "boom" I think about masses of NEW players coming to the game and I am afraid I do lot see new players learning PLO without passing by HE.

But, can losing HE players that have finished with HE be lured into playing PLO?

Yes

A boom?

Nope

(Hope to be hugely wrong....)
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