That's why I see so many PLO players with a tablet, simultaneously playing Ignition usually

Live PLO games have been going downhill for a long time. I agree that more players are participating, but the quality of the games is significantly worse. I find this to be particularly true of late since the PPP type app games have been running. Hoping this fad ends quickly with all the negative stories floating around.

I'm not sure what games you're playing, but games I play feature dudes limping in up front with JJ93 on the regular.

I feel like the level of competence in PLO is far less advanced than the level of competence in holdem. It would be much easier to climb the stakes in PLO than compared to holdem so my belief is to get good at it while the barrier is lower

Agree however IMO the pace of the game along with variance breaks the really bad players quicker.

12 months ago, were these same players raising JJ93 because they had jacks?

There's obviously going to be a lot of variables from one place to another. My comment was based on observations in two key regions which run games I partake in.

Has anyone bought the upswing plo package and/or reccomend it? Or any other source of plo study material ?
The area I live in has quickly seen the mid stakes NL die and said ecosystem move over to plo as plo has become more popular.

I haven't bought the PLO University course offered on Upswing, but I'm considering it. I follow JNandez and his YouTube live streams and he's the best I've seen at explaining and conveying the theories and concepts that go into his decision making. Also his analysis on ranging villains hands have been invaluable

These 2 posts sum it up very well. He's selling a product so of course he will say these things.

You've got to ask yourself why these guys stopped playing poker and started promoting a training site. Could it be because a big PLO boom is just around the corner and they want to help everyone else make lots of $$$? Or could it be because the games are dying and they have switched to other ways to make money?

Once you figure that out, only then will you realize the mere notion of a PLO boom is utter nonsense.

I'm sceptical of a PLO boom as I said but I always found this to be an annoyingly vapid argument.
Why would you not print variance free income given the chance? Blaming people and making them feel guilty for pursuing a career which will make them money is just childish.

I mean FWIW regarding the "wouldn't they rather be playing if a boom is coming" argument, Doug Polk is making $1k per purchase of his HU course. That doesn't take a lot of purchases before you have a lot of money. The coaching + live poker thing isn't exactly a chump change path if done right.

I know for a fact JNandez is still playing high stakes PLO online.

this is Wayne Chiang, the guy J Nandez ripped on in his Live at the Bike Youtube video.

PLO used to be a high stakes only game. Interest has grown more consistently and mid and lower stakes are pretty healthy in Los Angeles. Limon gets 2+ tables of 5-5 with a rock daily at Commerce Casino table 27. The game is amazing. There are many businessmen who are just messing around gambling and do not give a rats ass about losing. You don't have to play at Jnandez level to do well in that game. You can be at my level and still do fine.

PLO will never be the staple that no limit is nor limit holdem and 7 card stud was, but it's definitely here to stay.

Here's Jnandez ripping me a new one:


My PLO hands on Live at the Bike:


-Wayne "D22-soso" Chiang

No one cares Chiang.
PLO hardly runs outside of Cali, Florida, Vegas, Maryland/AC

Thats it. Nowhere else

Weak tight player fact.. if it was not for this Jokerstars RNG he be in the poor house but as we know all RNG are all coded for fish protection in 2017... **** I try and play lower for fun but hell I cant hit 23 outers I get 5 ****ing Nostodamus ****** on the table calling my wraps with 10 high and runnering it twice bink bink add that to the fact that I get hit and run so often heads up on tha Euro its no wonder why no mother fuker plays this game anymore.

Poker is long dead...Time to spend the Millions!!!

Foxwoods gets about 1to 3 games on weekdays

and 2 to 5 games on weekeneds

from 1-2, 2-5, 5-5, and 10-10

oh and Sands PA getting 1 to 3 games on weekends and usually 1 to 2 on weekdays

and Parx, PA also gets a 2-2 game daily, and a 5-5 game pretty regularly

underground PLO games going in NYC more than ever.. there's a mini boom in northeast. confirmed.

I think the boom stems more from the fun factor. Fun players enjoy PLO more because they get 4 cards and hit more flops, thus more action = more fun.

Someone in the FL forums summarized the mentality of weaker PLO players well when he said (and I paraphrase): "4 cards leads to more optimism, which means looser play. But 4 cards also leads to more confusion, which means more passive play".

I've seen monster nits in other games become loose passives in PLO because while they know JJ is a strong starting hand in hold em, they aren't so sure about what to do with (KJ)(Q9) versus KJ(T9), so they just passively enter the circus every hand and try to hit.

It's also more fun to make more money......

I regularly play in a 4 table poker room that always has a 1/2 PLO game running, frequently 2, where the initial buyins and definitely the rebuys frequently exceed $1k, where there is almost always $10k on the table once the game has been running for even half an hour, where it is not uncommon to see half the table themselves sitting on $10k, and there's a 4 figure pot every few hands. I barely know what I'm doing, and I crush this game.

And better yet, at this time guys are buying each other beers, laughing, doing flips, props, chatting about life. When we look over to the NLHE table, it's sad, motionless grinders with headphones and hoodies, and that game is still a majority of fun players. Even the recs at NLHE are bored! Whereas at the PLO with a mix of good regs, medium regs, and total fun players, everyone is having a good time. And it's not that the regs are putting on a show for the recs. We're just truly enjoying life, and there's something about embracing the variance of PLO that makes people open up and have fun. I doubt PLO is the game of the future but it sure isn't a game of the past either.

Everyone always talks about the "young sunglasses and hoody types killing the games" from my experience some of the most miserable people at the table are the 40 year old bitter ass washed up semi pros who are breaking even/losers and hate life/ hate young guns are the ones killing the mood.

The wealthy fish like playing with a young gun that gives action/ bluffs a lot more then they do with a total nit, because they enjoy the feeling the of catching a bluff more then anything else.

Imo all the problems would be solved with antes, I still dont understand why there isnt antes in cg live/online

And the reason why most dont stress antes more often, is because deep down the majority of cg players are actually nits that just like to complain

you don't need antes in plo.maybe you will in 5 years or something.

young anti social players (many of them huge nits btw) are absolutely horrible for the games.
the players you mention (young but fun to play with giving lots of action) are few and far between but great for the games.it is nice seeing a young guy who just "gets it" at the table and is fun to play with for the fish.

Get rid of the big ass headphones too. They look bad and are bad for the game.

^ I don't care about headphones as much as I do about tech at the table. Don't understand why casinos still allow phones, laptops, tablets or anything else of the sort. It might be annoying for the floor staff to enforce, but the benefit to the players and the house outweighs that many fold.