5/5
2 limps, hero raises co KJt8dd to the jack
blinds call
limpers call

qj7scd

sb check (1k effective)
bb leads pot 120 with 350 behind
limpers fold
Hero folds


I think the open is bad at the very loose table that I was at. thoughts on the fold?

I am ok with raising this hand pre-flop provided it is jtdd and not j8dd, it has fairly good playability so raising from a favorable position is fine.

As played fold, you don't have enough equity vs villain range, and your draw is sometimes dominated.

??? The difference is marginal and having JTdd blocks lower flushes that might pay you off more than J8dd does. Kinda weird to use that as your tipping point between raising and not raising. Game conditions / stack sizes / etc etc all far better reasons to raise vs not raise.

I guess my point is more that this hand plays better as a raise than a limp, and i would want the extra sliver of equity jtdd provides over j8dd. And more than the equity, the increased straight flush potential will also lend itself to more agressive plays in some spots, which i really value.

Idk that it should be the deciding factor in pre-flop decision here, kind of an educational point to help op gradually improve his game. Your observation about blocking some worse flush combos is a good one though and worth considering in certain spots.

Wat? I could totally be missing something, but I value J8 more than JT. Cuz you want V to have a T high flush. Are you actually valuing straight flushes in PLO? I feel like they never happen, so are statistically irrelevant.

Why does it play better as a raise than a limp? We aren't getting any folds pre (other than the button, which IMO is the only reason to raise a weak hand like this) so we're just bloating the pot with a hand with only a single, non nut suit.

I'd just limp this pre in games like this where you have no fold equity, and I'd raise a hand like AT97 ss to the ace. I don't want to play big pots with non nut flush draws multiway

Not going to get into this too deep, as the pros/cons of raise vs fold here should be fairly well known.

Immediately, raising increases the chances of the button and charges the blinds to realize equity, which is good for us. Fold equity for other players is also relevant; even if you feel they never fold to a single raise, factors like squeezes and back-raises can also come into play.

Limping caps and discounts our ranges on certain textures, which can reduce the fold equity we get postflop. This is a huge deal.

I would rather limp hands with greater nut potential and less high strength in this spot. So a-wheel suited for example. Kjt8 has above average high strength but limited nut potential, and can run into situations where it is dominated postflop so we prefer less players. At97ss is a good hand to play a mixed strategy of raising and limping, or adjusting based in table dynamics.

I would only raise this pre if I think our hand is ahead of the ranges of the limpers. I think an overlimp is fine, this is probably one of the strongest hands I'm willing to do it with though.

This makes sense, thanks for explaining it to me