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High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 01-22-2019, 06:32 PM   #1
Suhlm2
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Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

The site(Kings Club) only has video hand histories, so here is a written up hand history.

4 handed 2/5/.50
Hero: UTG $904
V: BTN $960
Hero Dealt QTT9

H open $16, V raises $56, I call

Flop($115) 82T
Check/Check

Turn K
H lead 80, V raises $242.50, H flat

River($600) 2d
H Checks. V pots.

Villain is a good reg who plays split between 2/5 and 5/10. He isn't overly aggro and my read is he normally is more trappy than aggressive. I'm a newer player on the site so not a ton of history, but I likely am viewed as aggro/sticky.

I think I played most streets incorrectly. I don't mind the flat pre this deep but your thoughts? Would you lead this flop? My plan was to x/r flop but when he checked I think I just led turn not wanting it to also be checked through. When he raised I felt like he had KK, since I doubt AA raises that turn and checks back flop. But with that river a lot of draws he could be raising on turn bricked, but its not a very bluffable card unless hes assuming he now has better 2pr with AA. But I'd imagine AA would check back.

I'm newer to plo so please critique as much as possible
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:53 PM   #2
+EVillain
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

if your opponent plays 5/10 then his 3B range vs a UTG open is likely going to be very strong/correct and rich in overpairs

with his range he most likely wants the flop to check through and to realize some EQ (he probably didn't slam this board), and if you check you give him the power to remove a street of betting and realize his EQ.

on the flop i think trap-checking is a good option (x/r), but unblocking hearts and facing a range that is very double suited i think there is merit to leading and focusing on protection/charge him for continuing.

some might say that since you are blocking both ends of the future straight that is potentially a reason to try the x/r or slowplay. IMO that is another reason to lead-big, because he is less likely to bet the flop with some kind of straight draw/combo draw.

on the turn and river we need to think very realistically about wtf he is bombing with that you still beat: KJQ9 w/ hearts, QJ9x w hearts, 88xx? since you are blocking a straight draw he is more likely to be barreling with KKxx. since he raises the turn this makes me think hes holding KK and wants to protect against straight/flush draws you could be holding

when the turn bricks out, and you check, he could be interpreting this as weakness/capped, and trying to follow through with missed draws or K8...but IMO that river decision really boils down to your reads ands his tendencies. without knowing this player i tend to think hes mostly got KKxx
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:47 AM   #3
MATT111
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

No way we can fold this river versus a competent villain. As far as the above post is concerned: it’s co vs bt, so villain will have a fair bit of speculative hands, while the majority of KK is just calling pre.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:14 PM   #4
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

in his post he says UTG v BTN

BTW OP Im not saying he wont bet this flop if u x to him, but u are heavily blocking the board and with his range he might want the flop to check through, by checking u give him that opportunity. Plus u are unblocking hearts and he could be very double suited (hearts)

I dont think u necessarily have to call river just because your too high up in your range.
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Old 01-23-2019, 06:30 PM   #5
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Bet flop for reasons mentioned above, bet/jam turn, never folding river
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:04 AM   #6
MATT111
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Quote:
Originally Posted by +EVillain View Post
in his post he says UTG v BTN

B
In a 4 handed game...
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:36 AM   #7
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

whoops, disregard op
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:07 AM   #8
Suhlm2
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Thanks guys for the input. I do appreciate the feedback. I got a little **** from one higher stakes guy for asking questions on such a seemingly standard river call(not on 2p2), but what I was most curious about was the streets leading up to river. Coming from nl leading flop oop(especially in 3bet pot) feels awkward, but since equity denial is so important in plo I think I need to start incorporating it into my game and build a range for it.

Do you think villain would be firing missed wraps or AA? Feels like such an awful card to bluff at, maybe with AA he feels my 2 pr has been counterfeit but he can still get some calls from KT/AK. I hadn't seen him rip a river full pot like this, in his spot I feel like I'd bet 350 or some amount to target weaker hands than TTT, thoughts?
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:59 AM   #9
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Missed wraps yes, AA never
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:17 PM   #10
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Its not only a standard call, it may be a jam (even on turn)
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:46 PM   #11
+EVillain
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhlm2 View Post
Thanks guys for the input. I do appreciate the feedback. I got a little **** from one higher stakes guy for asking questions on such a seemingly standard river call(not on 2p2), but what I was most curious about was the streets leading up to river. Coming from nl leading flop oop(especially in 3bet pot) feels awkward, but since equity denial is so important in plo I think I need to start incorporating it into my game and build a range for it.

Do you think villain would be firing missed wraps or AA? Feels like such an awful card to bluff at, maybe with AA he feels my 2 pr has been counterfeit but he can still get some calls from KT/AK. I hadn't seen him rip a river full pot like this, in his spot I feel like I'd bet 350 or some amount to target weaker hands than TTT, thoughts?
since your blocking his missed wraps this river gets a little more sketchy (kkxx). but i think that your right, his sizing is suspect. why would he rip this river with KKxx? im curious how the hand actually finished in real life now
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:47 AM   #12
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

why wouldnt he rip the river with KK?
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Old 01-26-2019, 02:50 PM   #13
+EVillain
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

if he was a thinking player IME he would probably want to target lower regions in hero's distribution w/ kk. if he were trying to follow through with a representation i see him potting like he did. could be wrong
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:20 PM   #14
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Quote:
Originally Posted by +EVillain View Post
if he was a thinking player IME he would probably want to target lower regions in hero's distribution w/ kk. if he were trying to follow through with a representation i see him potting like he did. could be wrong
hero mostly has sets and missed draws when he calls the turn raise, seems likely the hands he calls with are calling anything (inelastic). hero is also unlikely to try to bluff catch with AA or top pair (as well as missed draw) because villain has shown so much strength.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:58 AM   #15
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

I mean you definitely have to call. sucks if he has the kings, but you cant fold here.
if you think about folding here, then you have to raise turn, otherwise you're insanely exploitable.

on a general note, in a three bet pot on a wet middling board with a set, why not donk bet?

often the other guys thinks you have something like KQT7 ds and will call hoping to be still ahead, while really drawing to two outs.

Every hand that would have value bet will raise and gii.

And hoping that he cbets dry aces on this type of board often enough for it to be more profitable is wishful thinking imho.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:11 PM   #16
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Can’t fold he can have worse for value sorry you lost
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:26 PM   #17
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

i just jam turn
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:43 AM   #18
Suhlm2
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

I called, he had KK. Unfortunate situation but I think as I'm trying to find more rivers to fold and be less of a station, this one seems okay. I think focusing on the earlier streets and making better plays there(such as leading flop) is the best takeaway from this hand.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:08 AM   #19
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

c/r ai river opp will cry call aqj2 and end up developing viffer level alcohol problems
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:10 PM   #20
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Easy call, too many hands you beat. Im surprised you didnt shove the turn
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:23 PM   #21
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

I'm betting flop. I think as played you've got to fold when K comes. What else could he have that he doesn't bet flop? I'm always curious to read these threads because the games are so different in different areas. The 1/2- 2/5 games I play in are so much more straight forward than a lot of the posts on here. Every once in a while there's a guy or two capable of running wo the ball but in the games in Michigan that's KKs full 99% of the time.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:36 AM   #22
Rin-Inky
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

I like jamming turn, but I don't hate hate calling either. As played clear flat. No way you can fold, and raise is bad.

It's okay to donk flop, but it's not a huge deal either way.
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:27 PM   #23
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Re: Online 2/5/.50 , Would you call river?

Yeah Im more likely to jam turn than consider a fold here. Were far too high in our range to be making miracle laydowns to competent players.


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