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Old 02-11-2019, 03:08 PM   #226
WateryBoil
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Originally Posted by HandOfGod666 View Post
Also, whoever told you that is mistaken. All of the bots are making money after rakeback is taken into account. Also, all of their postflop statistics are the same. Every single account is hitting at least the minimum beast prize every week and many get the $250 prize (they used to get the top prize, but people got mad so WPN banned one of the accounts to make people happy (I_hold_it)). WPN will never ban these bots because their current business model depends on it. I have already submitted a huge amount of data to wpn security and spoke at length with a staff member who insulted me and said he would do nothing. I think the best way to deal with the bots seeing that WPN will NOT ban them, is to teach people how to spot and exploit them.
Thats truly disgusting and i cant ****ing believe sites like WPN that are filled with ****ing cheaters are even allowed to run or be promoted on forums.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:14 AM   #227
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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lmao how does the site not catch this. embarrassing. cant say ive ever or will ever play at WPN.
Either the security is clueless and doesn't want to lift a finger to deal with the most obvious bots in the world, or they are well aware of how to detect the bots and just do nothing to protect their bottom line. WPN is profiting off of their customers being cheated. The amount of rake that these bots are generating is astronomical. Instead of the money flowing from fish into professional players accounts, it is being siphoned off to the botring, leaving tiny scraps for players like myself that study their ass off and put in serious work. They also gamestart at 1/2 and lower, most regs will not game start because of how the Beast is structured. The bots are also stealing Beast rake from players on top of the card sharing and outright collusion (multiple bots go all in vs human in same hand). This is the most despicable business practice that I have ever encountered.

Last edited by HandOfGod666; 02-12-2019 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:29 AM   #228
HandOfGod666
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

A few more stats:

-Squeeze greater than or equal to 3bet exactly the same as the pokerstars bots

-Agg% in same range around 38-42

https://imgur.com/a/NrULQgZ

https://imgur.com/a/DBWQDCK

I hate to say it, but if there was anyone on WPN PLO that actually had a clue, more people would be doing something about this. The pokerstars PLO community came together and worked as a team to take care of the bot problem lol.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:56 PM   #229
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

The bots have never been seen playing CAP tables yet. Another suspected bot is "crazyhooch" I will know within a few days after his sample increases. Bots are playing and crushing 2kPL on WPN. The bot "kigdin" was playing multiple tables of 2kPL last night. With the same strategy as rightdecision and blimey at 25PL lol. Just shows how soft online poker is, that regs are so clueless they can't detect or exploit these obvious bots.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:21 AM   #230
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Originally Posted by HandOfGod666 View Post
A few more stats:

-Squeeze greater than or equal to 3bet exactly the same as the pokerstars bots

-Agg% in same range around 38-42

https://imgur.com/a/NrULQgZ

https://imgur.com/a/DBWQDCK

I hate to say it, but if there was anyone on WPN PLO that actually had a clue, more people would be doing something about this. The pokerstars PLO community came together and worked as a team to take care of the bot problem lol.
I've been emailing them for awhile. I sent your/my information on Skype right to someone who works for WPN. Haven't really heard anything back
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:49 AM   #231
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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I've been emailing them for awhile. I sent your/my information on Skype right to someone who works for WPN. Haven't really heard anything back
They can't be bots. They all have different avatars!
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:39 PM   #232
gwai lo
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Ty bro

A couple mid/high stakes bot names:

PortgasAceAce
Ropedancer
TeslaM77
BurningManKK
wolf_DDDDOG
temerarious5
Kigdin
glowworm
Thanks for all the hard work handofgod and WiCane. I play with these guys daily. I noticed they never play on the "NoRathole" table(s) as well. I will try and message some of the other human (ridiculous that I even have to say this imo) regs and inform them of this thread and hopefully we can do something about it.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:49 PM   #233
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Thanks for all the hard work handofgod and WiCane. I play with these guys daily. I noticed they never play on the "NoRathole" table(s) as well. I will try and message some of the other human (ridiculous that I even have to say this imo) regs and inform them of this thread and hopefully we can do something about it.
Just to be clear, WiCane actually didn't contribute anything beyond accusing some players with no evidence that don't even play anymore. I looked up the players he was sure were bots and they absolutely do nnot have ANY stats in common with the bot ring on WPN. The bots on WPN have the same obvious style as the bots that were banned on pokerstars (extremely high aggression, hyperdefending checkback range, squeeze higher than 3bet, high flop/turn check raise, ect.) Until he provides statistical evidence to back up his claims, it's actually counterproductive to what I am trying to achieve. The problem in this situation is that nobody is economically incentivized to do anything about this. I have even contacted a few well known poker players with social media following, they all listened and were interested, but ultimately none of them have made a video yet. It sucks because unless there is a real economic incentive for exposing this cheating, nobody will do anything and everyone will just continue to be stolen from.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:00 PM   #234
gwai lo
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

I think it's possible that some of the accounts he or I accused of being "bots" may not be a part of this particular bot ring you discovered (the one from Pokerstars). I understand that your scientific approach is the most optimal way for discovery, but I do think their is some merit to accusations that come from long time winning regs that play daily or almost daily. Fwiw, I am definitely open to being wrong with any accounts I have suggested to being bots and understand you and others have done far more work towards fixing this problem than I have.

Hope this doesn't come across as abrasive as we are on the same side.
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:42 PM   #235
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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I think it's possible that some of the accounts he or I accused of being "bots" may not be a part of this particular bot ring you discovered (the one from Pokerstars). I understand that your scientific approach is the most optimal way for discovery, but I do think their is some merit to accusations that come from long time winning regs that play daily or almost daily. Fwiw, I am definitely open to being wrong with any accounts I have suggested to being bots and understand you and others have done far more work towards fixing this problem than I have.

Hope this doesn't come across as abrasive as we are on the same side.
Actually there is literally no merit to baseless accusations, regardless of who is making them.

In 2016 there was fingers pointed and a honest regular, PLOwned, was banned from WPN, when there was absolutely no evidence that he was a bot.

If you don't need evidence, then how do you prove that an account is a bot?

Well I play on the site every day and I've been winning, and I've been losing to some other player and don't like the way he plays, thus he is a bot!

Last edited by HandOfGod666; 02-13-2019 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:47 AM   #236
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Originally Posted by HandOfGod666 View Post
Just to be clear, WiCane actually didn't contribute anything beyond accusing some players with no evidence that don't even play anymore. I looked up the players he was sure were bots and they absolutely do nnot have ANY stats in common with the bot ring on WPN. The bots on WPN have the same obvious style as the bots that were banned on pokerstars (extremely high aggression, hyperdefending checkback range, squeeze higher than 3bet, high flop/turn check raise, ect.) Until he provides statistical evidence to back up his claims, it's actually counterproductive to what I am trying to achieve. The problem in this situation is that nobody is economically incentivized to do anything about this. I have even contacted a few well known poker players with social media following, they all listened and were interested, but ultimately none of them have made a video yet. It sucks because unless there is a real economic incentive for exposing this cheating, nobody will do anything and everyone will just continue to be stolen from.
Ease up, I never claimed or wanted credit for anything.

FWIW, I was told the 2 accounts I mentioned were banned. Good possibility I was lied to I'm sure. Believe it or not there is a lot of cheating that goes on this site outside this BOT ring.

We appreciate your work and no one is trying to discredit it. We are all on the same side.
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:20 PM   #237
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

Just want to add a few things :

The bot accounts are all the same bot , not just because of identical stats , but they all share the same software glitch ( which i don't know if its a good idea to mention here , in case the bot operator is reading ) .

i have looked for and found that glitch on the following accounts :

PortgasAceAce
Ropedancer
TeslaM77
BurningManKK
wolf_DDDDOG
temerarious5
Kigdin

about a week ago , the bot operator started sitting two and sometimes three accounts per table (not all tables but some ) , pretty much 100% to assume they share cards .

Also to add , imo the bot is easily exploited HU .

HandOfGod666 has done a great job with the numbers . i really hope that WPN will ban this bot and its dozens of accounts spread around 5/10 and below .


btw , my account was locked and investigated for about a week and then reopened ,
and not banned like handofgod666 wrote .
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:16 PM   #238
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

Freaking pathetic.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:07 PM   #239
gwai lo
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

I posted this thread in the WPN thread where an ACR Rep posts to help out members in attempts for him/her to help us all with this situation. I'm also trying to reach out to "HolyCannuli", a sponsored pro on ACR, who is friends with the owner of the site (so I've heard), to see if he has any pull with support/the owner to get this issue bot issue resolved.

GL us.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:38 AM   #240
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Originally Posted by gwai lo View Post
I posted this thread in the WPN thread where an ACR Rep posts to help out members in attempts for him/her to help us all with this situation. I'm also trying to reach out to "HolyCannuli", a sponsored pro on ACR, who is friends with the owner of the site (so I've heard), to see if he has any pull with support/the owner to get this issue bot issue resolved.

GL us.

Lol if that fish had a clue about poker, he wouldn't have ranted and raved on his twitch stream about how people didn't know what they were talking about in reference to bot accusations on WPN. I already spoke with WINNING_TD on the phone and he insulted me and said there is no way any of these accounts will be investigated because all the players are not from the USA! I also sent him the spreadsheet and no response. **** WPN.
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:24 AM   #241
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

A couple new confirmed bots:

PoetessSafo
Loktar
kr0na

still waiting on more data for CrazyHooch

So interesting how kr0na has been demolishing PLO10 with the exact same strategy that kigdin is using at PLO2000. Must be some underground PLO university that forces its students to only play 1 or 2 stakes and never play higher or lower, the secret knowledge is just that amazing!

Last edited by HandOfGod666; 02-15-2019 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:06 PM   #242
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Lol if that fish had a clue about poker, he wouldn't have ranted and raved on his twitch stream about how people didn't know what they were talking about in reference to bot accusations on WPN. I already spoke with WINNING_TD on the phone and he insulted me and said there is no way any of these accounts will be investigated because all the players are not from the USA! I also sent him the spreadsheet and no response. **** WPN.
thats disgusting im going to bash that site everywhere i travel. **** WPN and that scum pro. that ****er has the balls to stream on twitch too, what a loser. probably doesnt want to lose his sugardaddys WPN sponsorship. truly evil.
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:24 PM   #243
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Originally Posted by HandOfGod666 View Post
A couple new confirmed bots:

PoetessSafo
Loktar
kr0na

still waiting on more data for CrazyHooch

So interesting how kr0na has been demolishing PLO10 with the exact same strategy that kigdin is using at PLO2000. Must be some underground PLO university that forces its students to only play 1 or 2 stakes and never play higher or lower, the secret knowledge is just that amazing!
Yeah kr0na, Gelllemar & ObeTwice are the same bot that only ever play plo10 in 8 hour shifts everyday.
Have sent WPN numerous emails/forum posts about them but haven't recieved one reply. Scum site
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #244
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

I havenít played much with krona, gellll I have about 1.5k hands on if anyone is collecting/thatís a decent enough sample size. I have owned him in this sample by playing weird floating and x/r often and calling down lightish. Not sure what the best play is vs a bot so Iíve purposely been playing him as weird as possible lol
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:38 PM   #245
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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Yeah kr0na, Gelllemar & ObeTwice are the same bot that only ever play plo10 in 8 hour shifts everyday.
Have sent WPN numerous emails/forum posts about them but haven't recieved one reply. Scum site

I looked up these other accounts and they are confirmed the same bot.

Gellemar and ObeTwice confirmed bots.

I'm like 60-75% certain that these are actually house bots. WPN doesn't have regs that will table start, so they have to use bots. It also explains why they refuse to ban them.

WPN also banned my chat when I was warning players of which accounts were bots and not to play at a table with 2+ of them.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:41 PM   #246
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

acr has probably taken some big hits after Joe Ingram made that warning video, but for the most part the site has been putting along in that quiet corner of the internet for years. Who knows how many millions people have had stolen from them through that client, who knows how many TYPES of cheating are going on: superusing, multi acc, bot rings, break even rakeback bot rings, live advisor software for heads up, all that.

The company is based in CR (like ultimate bet was) and run by people who truely don’t seem to care that their site is like a wood chipper for recs. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that somewhere in their ranks, a few employees with access to the software decided to cheat (JUST like ultimate bet). I’m not saying this is happening, but based on how compromised the site is now, and how little the management/security seems to care I’m saying it’s possible. I wish wpn would get their site together, but their rep is so besmirched that I don’t know if they can come back. Or if they even deserve to. Once again, we are talking about MILLIONS UPON MILLIONs stolen from aspiring players

Last edited by nightmaretilt; 02-15-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:59 PM   #247
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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acr has probably taken some big hits after Joe Ingram made that warning video, but for the most part the site has been putting along in that quiet corner of the internet for years. Who knows how many millions people have had stolen from them through that client, who knows how many TYPES of cheating are going on: superusing, multi acc, bot rings, break even rakeback bot rings, live advisor software for heads up, all that.

The company is based in CR (like ultimate bet was) and run by people who truely don’t seem to care that their site is like a wood chipper for recs. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that somewhere in their ranks, a few employees with access to the software decided to cheat (JUST like ultimate bet). I’m not saying this is happening, but based on how compromised the site is now, and how little the management/security seems to care I’m saying it’s possible. I wish wpn would get their site together, but their rep is so besmirched that I don’t know if they can come back. Or if they even deserve to. Once again, we are talking about MILLIONS UPON MILLIONs stolen from aspiring players
Please don't bring other accusations into this thread without evidence. You are very correct that millons have been stolen from all players not just recreational players. I estimate that this bot ring is making 3-4 million USD a year off WPN alone.

Last edited by HandOfGod666; 02-15-2019 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:08 AM   #248
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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thats disgusting im going to bash that site everywhere i travel. **** WPN and that scum pro. that ****er has the balls to stream on twitch too, what a loser. probably doesnt want to lose his sugardaddys WPN sponsorship. truly evil.
Couldn't agree more. Anyone paid to represent ACR are complicit in this crime being carried out against its playerbase. This includes Jeff Boski, Tom Cannuli, et al.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:52 AM   #249
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

The token bots that were banned last year at PLO10 after Joe Ingram made his videos all had the exact same stats as the current bots. Talking specifically about RumWarrior, sillygeek and chore.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:56 AM   #250
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Re: The old pokerstars PLO botring, this time on WPN

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I think it is likely that there is botting at NL, but I have no evidence for it so I am sticking to accusations that I have hard proof of in this thread.
I've played 5MM+ hands at 100nl-1knl on WPN, and the bots are rampant at NLHE. They share similar tendencies with the PLO bots, such as betting ~80% when checked to multiway and a very high FCbet multiway. However, the biggest tell they have is an absurdly high cold call% from all positions. I'm talking 20% cold call in the HJ, which is insane. You see them do **** like cold call Q9o and K3s in the CO and you think they must be a fish, then find out they are only a slight loser or winning. There are at least 20 of them.
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