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Old 07-10-2018, 08:18 AM   #1726
jayme87
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Yikes. More bots who would of thought???....
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:40 AM   #1727
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

On popular demand the banned accounts are:
Menikagain
7Soulriper7
kicKSTARter4
OShostak
Kvboger
Orsaminora

The accounts ended up winning around 75k usd. OShostak had a winrate of 11bb/100 over 200k hands. Scary ****!
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:19 AM   #1728
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grethe View Post
On popular demand the banned accounts are:
Menikagain
7Soulriper7
kicKSTARter4
OShostak
Kvboger
Orsaminora

The accounts ended up winning around 75k usd. OShostak had a winrate of 11bb/100 over 200k hands. Scary ****!
wow - this would be big, if true.

A simple google search for 'Menikagain' suggests that this is the account owner: https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/e...pr-124947.html

I'm sceptical that this is a bot, obviously.

Can you post the full and unedited exchange of emails with PokerStars?
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:23 AM   #1729
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Also, more discussion of these account is on here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...plo50-1708088/
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:27 PM   #1730
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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wow - this would be big, if true.

A simple google search for 'Menikagain' suggests that this is the account owner: https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/e...pr-124947.html

I'm sceptical that this is a bot, obviously.

Can you post the full and unedited exchange of emails with PokerStars?
Some of the previous banned bot-accounts belonged to "known players". The russian account Samantha was an example of that.

I don't think it is a good idea to share more information about the work and dialog with PS leading up to the detection. The bot-owner(s) might be reading this.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:03 PM   #1731
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grethe View Post
On popular demand the banned accounts are:
Menikagain
7Soulriper7
kicKSTARter4
OShostak
Kvboger
Orsaminora

The accounts ended up winning around 75k usd. OShostak had a winrate of 11bb/100 over 200k hands. Scary ****!
played with pretty much all of them, damn
pretty sure 7soulriper7 had 10bb+ wr aswell

can you post their stats and point to some specific ones that are very different then avg reg so we can easier spot some more bots? tnx
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:39 PM   #1732
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

pokerstars failing again. Amazing that players using hand histories only can find these bots but stars with all possible information.. timing tells, mouse position, location, cashout history (i strongly believe bot owners would keep their account balances low to reduce the amount confiscated when inevitably caught), etc. still cant catch them in under 50k hands.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:51 AM   #1733
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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played with pretty much all of them, damn
pretty sure 7soulriper7 had 10bb+ wr aswell

can you post their stats and point to some specific ones that are very different then avg reg so we can easier spot some more bots? tnx
I don't think that would be a wise idea tbh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scar18 View Post
pokerstars failing again. Amazing that players using hand histories only can find these bots but stars with all possible information.. timing tells, mouse position, location, cashout history (i strongly believe bot owners would keep their account balances low to reduce the amount confiscated when inevitably caught), etc. still cant catch them in under 50k hands.
Absolutely agree. It is just insane that PS are not able to detect bots faster and better. At first I was not going to do anything, but when I was sitting at a plo table with 3 of the banned accounts one day, I got so tilted, I ended up spending a friday night dating Excel I spend maybe 5-7 hours total with HEM+Excel (and inputs from rPTR). Pokerstars have access to so much more information it can only be the result of not being prioritized or extreme incompetency!
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:02 AM   #1734
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Absolutely agree. It is just insane that PS are not able to detect bots faster and better.
You don't know how fast or well they're able to detect bots.

Obviously, they don't detect 100%, but there's no security mechanism in the world which is perfect.

Can you please post the email confirming the account names that were banned?
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:25 AM   #1735
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
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You don't know how fast or well they're able to detect bots.

Obviously, they don't detect 100%, but there's no security mechanism in the world which is perfect.

Can you please post the email confirming the account names that were banned?
Well, obviously PS is doing a pretty poor job detecting those accounts... I mean there's something wrong when some of those account are the biggest volume players at 100PLO this year and you still need to report those accounts in order to get them noticed and banned by PS.

I have played 250k hands at plo100-plo200 this year and 3 of those banned accounts are in top6 of my most played villains during that time.

I know this won't satisfy your need of getting confirmation, but I can confirm that none of the listed accounts have played on PS after they got reported by Grethe.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:28 AM   #1736
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Well, obviously PS is doing a pretty poor job detecting those accounts...
It's not at all "obvious".

What percentage of botters do you think they should catch to be considered as doing a good job?

What percentage of botters do you think they are catching?
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:17 AM   #1737
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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It's not at all "obvious".

What percentage of botters do you think they should catch to be considered as doing a good job?

What percentage of botters do you think they are catching?
Have you read this thread?

And no, to protect the games, I will not post my dialog with PS, methods, specific stats etc.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:22 AM   #1738
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Have you read this thread?
Yes, obviously.

What percentage of botters do you think they should catch to be considered as doing a good job?

What percentage of botters do you think they are catching?
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:17 AM   #1739
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

So do get players the money back?

What is Stars doing with the money that confiscated?
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:50 PM   #1740
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Yes, obviously.

What percentage of botters do you think they should catch to be considered as doing a good job?

What percentage of botters do you think they are catching?
If you have read the thread and think Stars are doing a good job busting bot-accounts - I rest my case.

I can't give you a number, but the accounts that I found and proved to be bots based on 5 hours in excel on a friday night should be banned looooong time ago.
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:10 PM   #1741
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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If you have read the thread and think Stars are doing a good job busting bot-accounts - I rest my case.
I haven't made any claims about their skill here. You have.

The implication of your posts is that a good poker bot detection method is one that detects 100% of bots, with 0 contribution from players. I think that's an obviously unachieveable and impossible standard to hold a site to, and thus, a silly argument that you're making.

It would be helpful for players if sites provided actual data to evaluate their performance here in this regard, but they don't. In the meantime, it's difficult to evaluate their performance.

So, it seems you have little reason to make sweeping statements, and you refuse to post the email from PokerStars confirming that certain players were bots. This is very strange behaviour, and it does not seem reasonable or supportable to me.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:20 AM   #1742
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

It makes no sense to take this further. If you want to discuss bot detection rate and acceptable security levels, feel free to - buts lets keep it out of this thread.

I am not implicating that 100% of bots should be detected. That is impossible. I am saying the automated detection could (and should!) be optimized and prioritized way more.

Lastly, I am not going share data, emails, stats, methods etc. It is my opinion that sharing more info would benefit potential bot-readers more and you or other 2+2 members.
If you can't trust me or the validity of my (free) work - sorry, it is your problem. Several people/accounts in here can vouch for me.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:42 AM   #1743
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Lastly, I am not going share data, emails, stats, methods etc. It is my opinion that sharing more info would benefit potential bot-readers more and you or other 2+2 members.
I merely asked that you post the email confirming that there was cheating. You continue to refuse to do so, and the implication of your wacky line of reasoning is that PokerStars sends secret and useful bot detection to people who report misbehaviour. I don't know why you would think they did this, nor can I comprehend why you think there's anything secret in their emails. Obviously, the account owners (botters) already know which of their accounts has been shut down, because they're the account owners of them.

When I wrote a bunch of templates for them on this issue ~10 years ago, they did not reveal any secret information. I don't know why you would think they do this now.

It's pretty ordinary and uncontroversial for people to share emails identifying cheaters. You might well mean well, but you continue to write things that do not appear to be rational, and are probably not true.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:38 PM   #1744
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Josem, please stop. I am sure there are threads where your input is appreciated, this is not one of them.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:10 PM   #1745
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Josem, please stop. I am sure there are threads where your input is appreciated, this is not one of them.
+1
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:28 AM   #1746
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

as one that played vs 7soulriper7 and lost a few pots against him, shall I expect a reimburse by pokerstars?
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:26 PM   #1747
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

lol
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:05 PM   #1748
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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as one that played vs 7soulriper7 and lost a few pots against him, shall I expect a reimburse by pokerstars?
oh sweet summer child
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Old 11-22-2018, 01:44 PM   #1749
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

aaaaaand today we got a refund. Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:41 AM   #1750
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I have similar data on a massive bot ring currently active on WPN. If anyone can get in contact with me for help with the data I'd appreciate it.
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