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Old 02-08-2016, 08:16 AM   #1676
viking1
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Conspiracy theories more likely.
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:35 AM   #1677
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Kf071289 View Post
have a suspect @ 10NL Zoom. 4-tabling and instantly makes bets/checks/folds, like INSTANT. Not really sure this is possible when 4 tabling. Lightning.
If you 4tabling zoom its better to be quick!
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:24 PM   #1678
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Guys, just a quick heads up while we wait for Pokerstars...

I've spotted an account, that based on stats, almost certainly is a bot. The postflop frequencies are close to the previous spotted bots with 20/26 within a 2% interval.

The worst part: The account was reported first time in the spring 2015.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:05 PM   #1679
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Guys, just a quick heads up while we wait for Pokerstars...

I've spotted an account, that based on stats, almost certainly is a bot. The postflop frequencies are close to the previous spotted bots with 20/26 within a 2% interval.

The worst part: The account was reported first time in the spring 2015.
This atrocious to hear and makes me really wonder wtf is going on at that company and the ****ing regulators.
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:44 AM   #1680
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

"At your request, we have conducted a review of this player’s profile, and it is PokerStars’ view that this player does not show any indication of being a bot based upon all the information we have available. Of course, we will continue to monitor our games and should evidence of any prohibited program use surface in the future, we will be sure to take the appropriate action in order to protect the integrity of our games."

Hmm, I might be wrong...
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:36 AM   #1681
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Hmm, I might be wrong...
I am not so sure it's you who is wrong there
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:23 AM   #1682
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Reply to them and ask if they asked him to do a video of himself playing like they seem to want from some other accounts. If not then strongly request for it as you are sure that he is a Bot
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:54 AM   #1683
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I've mailed PS with stats/details and sent a pm to Schwein
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:34 AM   #1684
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us. Your email was escalated to me as a manager in the PokerStars Game Integrity Team.

You do not sound rude to me by any means. On the contrary, we appreciate your efforts in assisting us protect the integrity of our games, and I do recall exchanging emails with you in the past relating to this matter.

I'm unable to divulge specifics on our investigation into the account 'XXX' as our strict privacy policy precludes me from doing so, and because the revelation of certain details may jeopardise our ability to detect certain prohibited activity. I can however tell you that the key identifying characteristics of accounts that we have barred for Terms of Service violations are not present on this account. Of course, we expect that those who seek to break our rules will always be looking for new ways to circumvent detection, but there are certain fundamental differences and exonerating factors in this account that led us to our conclusion.

I am also able to tell you that we have dedicated resources reviewing sitewide playing statistics, allowing us to proactively investigate any anomalies or irregular behaviour, as well as compare any accounts reported by players such as yourself with the rest of the site.

Finally, it may interest you to know that we have barred accounts for Terms of Service violations despite them being able to provide a video of their play. In numerous instances, the players in question were able to comfortably demonstrate their play (playing with a strategy that matched their past play), but the demonstration failed to mitigate any of the convicting evidence we collected.

I hope this helps put your mind at ease. We will of course continue to monitor the situation, and if any evidence of a rules breach is found in the future, appropriate action will be taken.

Regards,

Ian Y
PokerStars Game Integrity Team
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:13 PM   #1685
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Well, at least it feels good to receive a real, actually written for you, email.
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Old 02-20-2016, 02:40 AM   #1686
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Well, at least it feels good to receive a real, actually written for you, email.
Yeah definitely, because good feels are so much better than cold hard facts.
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Old 03-07-2016, 04:33 PM   #1687
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Betonline is full of bots
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Old 05-10-2016, 05:36 AM   #1688
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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This is taking a little longer than they hoped. They emailed me today to say it is still in progress and they will be in touch shortly to discuss the issues I've raised.

May be good news, they are taking it seriously and had a strong response from the sites so lots of info to analyse and potentially decisions to be made on consultations but I haven't seen any of the output so maybe it's just the usual bureaucratic delay because of a lack of resource and difficulty in getting agreement on the way ahead with government.

Probably complicated by the gambling minister being on maternity leave even though it should not be an issue it might mean the cover is less informed or nervous re longer term decisions when she will be returning.
Any update Richas?
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:59 AM   #1689
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Could this player be a possible bot?


He is playing a couple of PL050 tables with high c-bet% und very high AF for this level...
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Old 07-09-2016, 12:16 PM   #1690
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

That's not a bot and your samplesize is way too small
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Old 08-28-2016, 02:09 PM   #1691
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Was there ever an official statement about this? How it went undetected, what upgrades in security have been made so it doesn't happen again or isn't currently happening? This thread is hidden away, should be in NVG

Last edited by hornykiss; 08-28-2016 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 10-22-2016, 05:46 PM   #1692
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Those of you who see the news below may be tempted to submit on these void bets/compensation payments, underpayments and the like. There will be a bit more news in the next week or so re compensation transparency so my advice would be to check it out but wait a few days for the extra info. Sorry if that is cryptic but I have agreed to maintain confidences until then - I just would not want people to jump too quickly.

Investigation launched by the UK Competition and Markets Authority working with the UKGC available here:

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-gambling

Quote:
Case information
21 October 2016: The launch of this investigation follows concerns raised by the Gambling Commission about potential breaches of consumer law in the online gambling industry. The CMA has conducted an initial review of complaints information and a number of gambling firms’ promotions and terms and conditions. We are now launching an investigation to determine whether we should exercise our consumer protection powers to tackle unfair or misleading behaviour in the industry.

Press release: CMA launches investigation into online gambling (21.10.16)
We are especially concerned that players may be losing out as a result of:

Being locked into complex and strict requirements linked to gaming promotions that are difficult to understand and may be unachievable.
Companies having a wide discretion to cancel bets or alter odds after bets have been accepted, because they made a mistake when the odds were first set.
Terms restricting players’ ability to challenge a company’s decision.
See our press release above for a full list of our concerns.
There are numerous maainstream UK media articles on this but none improve on the press release here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...nline-gambling

AS for the seriousness/powers of this - The CMA have huge powers and can levy fines of up to 10% of global turnover - they never get near to that, the highest I recall is 45m for a drug company racket to do with generic (off patent) drugs.

Quote:
Contact
We would like to hear from you if you have experience of these issues. Please contact us at Gambling@cma.gsi.gov.uk and state clearly in the subject line of your email whether the information relates to sign-up promotions, altered odds or cancelled bets, or terms that restrict the ability to claim.

Last edited by Richas; 10-22-2016 at 05:53 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:42 PM   #1693
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

FFS boys and girls!

Do you not get that if you think you were not compensated fully, this is your absolute last chance. Given one operator paid **** All when 1m was seized of the cheat, and likely Neteller got repaid their commission payments they were happy to pay for real trade and you aren't helping out here.

How the **** is that +ev for you and why the **** am I wasting my time raising this with the CMA and the UKGC (again and again) with no chance of me seeing a dime.

Finish the damn job. Please, somebody - HELP! Make the damn firms answer questions from the regulators.

If you want their money and a fine imposed to punish them for being shysters, please help.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:57 PM   #1694
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

The problem is, given the lack of information from the sites then players have very little information to go on. If they don't confirm players who were reported have been banned, even though you don't see them again, then it's difficult to pin anything on them. Maybe at mid stakes and above there's an incentive for players to do more digging but at the micros players just tend to accept it.
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:15 PM   #1695
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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The problem is, given the lack of information from the sites then players have very little information to go on. If they don't confirm players who were reported have been banned, even though you don't see them again, then it's difficult to pin anything on them. Maybe at mid stakes and above there's an incentive for players to do more digging but at the micros players just tend to accept it.
It's in the thread! It was 2+2 peeps that caught him. They did it on two sites. One paid players, the other did not.

It is not our job to prove the right payments were made, it is our job to put up two cases, one from each site, that the CMA can investigate.

Over 1m was distributed - the CMA has the power to find out how. I suspect the "good" poker firm reclaimed at least the rake. The "Bad" firm took the cash for itself entirely and the payment processors ended up better off having bribed a cheater and got refunded so much that they made MORE than if it was legit play.

We don't need to prove it now - Neteller - I-Poker, 888 are the ones being investigated by the UK government. FFS at least give me something to put to them so they have to investigate where the 1m+ seized by the courts went!

Last edited by Richas; 11-04-2016 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Typo galore, rage
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:50 PM   #1696
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Haven't read the thread, it's pretty massive. Are you saying Stars paid out and Party didn't?
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:52 AM   #1697
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Haven't read the thread, it's pretty massive. Are you saying Stars paid out and Party didn't?
Apologies, I actually meant to post on the Darren Woods cheating scandal thread, I'd had a few beers so was ranting about that.

Meanwhile yes, last time I heard Stars had made some small repayments presumably using funds seized from their accounts and party had not. The 1m court seized assets and a firm still not paying compensation was the Dooshcom/Woods case.

Raising the failure to compensate here with the CMA is also important. Players caught the cheats, the firms have compensated just seized funds - not the rake they pocketed from the corrupted games they failed to detect - they are profiting from corrupted games.
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Old 11-05-2016, 09:07 AM   #1698
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Raising the failure to compensate here with the CMA is also important. Players caught the cheats, the firms have compensated just seized funds - not the rake they pocketed from the corrupted games they failed to detect - they are profiting from corrupted games.
Is this true for the PLO botring in PokerStars? Can anything be done about that?

Its perverse if the sites have incentives to keep the bots in the games (worst case they have to pay bot winnings back - not rake earnings).
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Old 11-05-2016, 09:08 AM   #1699
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Party did make a small payout recently but it was all rather shady imo. I'd questioned them about refunds as it was obvious that some of the bots were being banned after being reported and yet there was no refunds to players. The two biggest winners in my database were banned. W
hen they made the change to anonymous hand histories and people were querying their ability to catch bots now that the players couldn't find them they suddenly announced there would be refunds. The payouts were small but I never got an explanation as to why they had suddenly decided to process them at this point in time. It seemed like a PR exercise given the heat they were taking about the hand history changes. Given all that though I've left the site this month and think quite a few others will also.
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:17 AM   #1700
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Is this true for the PLO botring in PokerStars? Can anything be done about that?

Its perverse if the sites have incentives to keep the bots in the games (worst case they have to pay bot winnings back - not rake earnings).
we can't know for sure because obviously stars never gives any details about compensation process, but it is of course true. Otherwise we would have been compensated millions (yes, really, millions)

Last edited by kelnel; 11-05-2016 at 10:28 AM.
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