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Old 10-04-2015, 01:24 PM   #1626
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

The limitation of liability under 9.1 is no defence for Stars.

If all a company (any company, not just a gaming company) has to do is say in its TOS is that "Under no circumstances can it be held liable" then there would never be any liability cases would there?

Stating you cannot be held liable does not mean you are not liable.

Making a statement of denial of liability is no protection against actual liability. The courts decide that.
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:32 PM   #1627
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdamNx View Post
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but the thread is quite long.
What's the botting/collusion situation on IPoker? Particularly on 200+ ?
Has anyone looked for suspicious accounts over there?
yes. Players with the same stats and high volume were found on IPoker. They were reported and are all gone. They disappeared at IPoker about the same time when Fedor, seregaxx and the others reduced their volume at Stars (~1 week after this thread started)


@Richas
Does the gambling commission know about IPoker case as well or do they just know about Stars and BWin/Party? William Hill, Ladbrokes, Gala, Coral aso are big in the UK
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:32 PM   #1628
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Richas and I are agreed that a complaint should be made to Stars by anyone wanting compensation. To make it easy I have drafted a suggested letter that asks the relevant questions.

Dear Pokerstars

Please state :-
1) The total amount the bots won.
2) The total amount bots won in the games I played in.
3) The total amount of rake I paid in these games.
4) My total losses in these games.

I am entirely dissatisfied with my refund of... (insert $ amount)

I believe I was entitled to a far better level of service and protection than you provided. I relied on frequent assurances given by your company that bots were not permitted, and that you have a dedicated security department with over 80 employees constantly monitoring the games. It's your fault that bots operated for such a long time.

I wish to refunded all of my losses in games where bots operated.

I wish to be refunded all of the rake I paid in those games.

Is there anything that anyone can think of that has been left out or needs to be added?

Stars should be able to answer the questions which are reasonable to ask. Especially if enough players can be bothered to ask them.
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:59 PM   #1629
Richas
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by potbet View Post
yes. Players with the same stats and high volume were found on IPoker. They were reported and are all gone. They disappeared at IPoker about the same time when Fedor, seregaxx and the others reduced their volume at Stars (~1 week after this thread started)


@Richas
Does the gambling commission know about IPoker case as well or do they just know about Stars and BWin/Party? William Hill, Ladbrokes, Gala, Coral aso are big in the UK
Yes they are aware of the i-poker cases, one of the things they can do is coordinate information sharing between the sites so it was and is important that they see this as a single conspiracy vs players on multiple licensees sites.

I wouldn't get your hopes up re i-poker, one of the compensation issues I am chasing the commission on is how it is that with the Darren Woods case where 1m of his assets was seized and the sentencing was based upon the cheated being compensated 888 has compensated but i-poker not.

I am seeking clarity on how the compensation was calculated, where the 1m went and why some at 888 and all at i-poker have not received compensation. That case first broke here FOUR YEARS ago.
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Old 10-04-2015, 09:45 PM   #1630
hayvanchen
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Two more bots on IPOKER:

"dntgivead**n"
"Typh**n89"
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Old 10-05-2015, 05:22 AM   #1631
cbt
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown reg

Bots are destroying the games



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaya Data

Limit HUDs to 3 colors
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:08 AM   #1632
Roger Mainfield
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Based on the size of the refunds it seems likely they are only distribution confiscated funds. What possible argument could they give for not returning the rake? They are the ones who messed up here, not the players, yet they get to profit from it?
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:54 PM   #1633
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by cbt View Post
....
HAHAAAAHAAAA
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:54 PM   #1634
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Roger Mainfield View Post
What possible argument could they give for not returning the rake?
They can..

(Why would they need an argument anyway?)
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:57 PM   #1635
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

So lets do something about it as I have suggested!
Do you agree with my posts?
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:57 AM   #1636
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mainfield View Post
Based on the size of the refunds it seems likely they are only distribution confiscated funds. What possible argument could they give for not returning the rake? They are the ones who messed up here, not the players, yet they get to profit from it?
Does anyone know if Stars are just are just refunding confiscated funds? Stars are either liable to return the rake in full and losses in full, or they are not. One or the other. I want to emphasise that in legal terms there is no such thing as "being a little bit liable ". liability either exists or it doesn't. Is it the realistic conclusion especially from those who have received refunds that only confiscated funds have been refunded. Responses please because this is crucial for any liability claims.
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Old 10-06-2015, 03:45 PM   #1637
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by paininzeebott View Post
Does anyone know if Stars are just are just refunding confiscated funds? Stars are either liable to return the rake in full and losses in full, or they are not. One or the other. I want to emphasise that in legal terms there is no such thing as "being a little bit liable ". liability either exists or it doesn't. Is it the realistic conclusion especially from those who have received refunds that only confiscated funds have been refunded. Responses please because this is crucial for any liability claims.
Sadly no, it remains unclear how the compensation is arrived at or what if any top up from Stars beyond seized balances is involved. The UKGC were understandably reluctant to talk about compensation methodology disclosed to them, Stars have said nothing re any top up or on the methodology to players.

The basic calculations from the illegal data site on these players strongly suggests that not all rake from affected games has gone to compensation, the amounts are too low for that.

As for a little liable - compensation is not an admition of liability, these are ex gratia payments with no admission.

I have again asked that the UKGC do a lessons learnt report on this and provide some clarity re compensation sums and methodology. They were far from hostile to the idea, their concerns related to areas they could not cover like details of suspects, investigation methodology etc not opposition to greater consumer information, indeed the impression given was that the new CEO with her background at Ofgem, a regulator with consumers central to their mission was that increased consumer information and consumer engagement is a priority for the new regime.
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Old 10-06-2015, 06:22 PM   #1638
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakamator View Post
87$... Almost didnt post this to not put a smile on bots faces...
The bots are smiling, they got $1,300,000
Stars must be hysterical, they got $2,500,000
and nobody prepared to do a damn thing about it
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Old 10-07-2015, 01:18 AM   #1639
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by paininzeebott View Post
The bots are smiling, they got $1,300,000
Stars must be hysterical, they got $2,500,000
and nobody prepared to do a damn thing about it
Well,cheaters got their "well deserved" reward money,PS got their high rake,and serious regulars got xxxxx in the xxx as usual.

Them giving refunds in the range of a few10$s to a couple hundred is a pathetic insult in my opinion.AND these monies are going to the players who essentially discovered the whole thing.I bet employees who work there,and this would have been their job get waaay more.

Yet players continue to play,and pay them as they always do.
They have the money to give away literally millions to random droolers playing an all in shootout,or a single table sng for the cool mirrion.
They DO NOT have the money to give back the losses and/or the rake paid to their honest and dedicated regulars.

Well,if THEY ARE POKER,as they always say,then u shouldn't want to get involved in poker...
I am sincerely wondering when will ppl wake up,and finally say enough is enough and vote with their feet.
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Old 10-07-2015, 06:34 AM   #1640
Plw
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I had nothing aswell the truth is they don't give a **** if its not going to make the front page of a newspaper they don't care since they lost nothing of their credibility with the fun players unaware of this situation
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:19 AM   #1641
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plw View Post
I had nothing aswell the truth is they don't give a **** if its not going to make the front page of a newspaper they don't care since they lost nothing of their credibility with the fun players unaware of this situation
They don't care because nobody is taking any action against them. If I get any support that will dramatically change including the publicity aspect.

I need players to either support or reject my proposals asap. What do you think? Do you agree?
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:20 AM   #1642
paininzeebott
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

We can only vote with our feet if there is somewhere else to go. The only way we will get justice is to put up a united front and take action. Joint action.
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:20 AM   #1643
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

what s up dandan!? what did your friend in newspaper said when you brought him that story? you made fun of my swiss newspaper when I told you this would never make press.
I hope all is good with your wife
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Old 10-12-2015, 02:59 PM   #1644
Richas
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2015/1...view-23014.htm

Quote:
The U.K. Gambling Commission (UKGC) announced a review to investigate whether the use of third-party software could lead to episodes of cheating and collusion in online poker.

In a note released on Oct. 8, the U.K. gambling authority explained that "regulations governing online poker where players play against each other — as opposed to playing the operator — are being reviewed."

The review will include several stages, the first of which will see the UKGC to seek information from the operators holding a license to operate in the U.K. "about collusion and cheating — including the use of automated poker robots ('bots') and third-party software."
The UKGC announcement is here:
http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...eer-poker.aspx
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:48 PM   #1645
SNAKERICE
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

the russian account "Yoo4" seem suspicious to anyone else?
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Old 10-13-2015, 08:21 PM   #1646
danfiu
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Why is it suspicious?
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:32 PM   #1647
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Why is it suspicious?
because it's Russian
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Old 10-14-2015, 12:53 PM   #1648
Grethe
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by SNAKERICE View Post
the russian account "Yoo4" seem suspicious to anyone else?
I can't say for sure, but it was investigated along with a lot of other accounts
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:24 PM   #1649
halcyon229
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Im pretty sure he is a legit reg, he also had success in some WCOOP events back in the day:

https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/2...me-141744.html
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:35 PM   #1650
SNAKERICE
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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I can't say for sure, but it was investigated along with a lot of other accounts
Thanks
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