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Old 09-28-2015, 12:00 PM   #1576
alexo18
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

750
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:13 PM   #1577
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I got nothing. Played thousands of hands vs them.
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:22 PM   #1578
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

same here
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:33 PM   #1579
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

598
pretty disappointed
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:40 PM   #1580
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

656 here, mainly zoom500
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:39 PM   #1581
kingc11
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I've added up the refunds and Stars you still owe over $4MM. MASSIVE amounts missing in this huge scandal

edit: got $26.42
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:58 PM   #1582
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

600 000 hands played across PLO100 & PLO200 zoom/normal tables in 2014/2015

$22 refund
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Old 09-28-2015, 09:16 PM   #1583
Sira Al Aziz
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

$96
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:48 PM   #1584
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

104$
joke
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:23 AM   #1585
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Got 221, and only been playing volume recently
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:13 AM   #1586
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Someone should make an NVG thread in the next couple days, detailing the amount of accounts and total taken out of the games compared to the seemingly trivial refund amounts.
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:37 AM   #1587
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Part of an email from Stars:

"In each case where it is determined compensation is required, the compensation is based on characteristics unique to that particular case. This takes into account the amount of harm caused and the amount of exposure per individual. This will include factors such as the stakes played, and the volume of hands or tournaments played by innocent players against those who have violated our Terms of Service. When it is determined that a requisite amount of damage has been caused, in addition to confiscated balances, PokerStars will contribute funds to create an equitable compensation pool to distribute to innocent players. "

I just checked my account vs 1 bot, fedor and I am already down $4,5k.
However I got a refund of $64,29, really Stars?
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:58 AM   #1588
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilike4cards View Post
Part of an email from Stars:

"In each case where it is determined compensation is required, the compensation is based on characteristics unique to that particular case. This takes into account the amount of harm caused and the amount of exposure per individual. This will include factors such as the stakes played, and the volume of hands or tournaments played by innocent players against those who have violated our Terms of Service. When it is determined that a requisite amount of damage has been caused, in addition to confiscated balances, PokerStars will contribute funds to create an equitable compensation pool to distribute to innocent players. "

I just checked my account vs 1 bot, fedor and I am already down $4,5k.
However I got a refund of $64,29, really Stars?
Thanks for this detail. I am meeting with the UKGC in a a couple of weeks and this scandal is on the agenda. I would appreciate any further details of how Stars have dealt with the compensation. Plus whether/when the other sites affected pay anything.

The scale of total loss (per site) vs the scale of compensation is the key metric for the scandal. Is the best estimate still $4m loss on Stars (that is total taken out by the botring)? It may be that the UKGC already has better visibility of the Stars compensation tha we have here but I'd like some estimates to compare to what Stars have (or have not yet) shared with the UKGC.

I am also interested in the other sites - for example in the Darren Woods case (also on the agenda) 888 seem to have paid some compensation but not i-poker. Are we at risk here of attacking the only ste that will be paying out anything?
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Old 09-29-2015, 03:22 AM   #1589
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richas View Post
Are we at risk here of attacking the only site that will be paying out anything?
Certainly. Stars does a much better job than the other sites most likely.
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Old 09-29-2015, 05:30 AM   #1590
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mainfield View Post
Certainly. Stars does a much better job than the other sites most likely.
Stars will probably do 5% better than other sites. Other sites pay back 0% of the damage, stars 5%.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:24 AM   #1591
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

"We have been able to complete our investigation into these accounts and take the appropriate action as set forth in our Terms of Service. In instances where the evidence surpassed the level of proof required to take action against the accounts involved, their opponents have been compensated proportionally to the harm caused."

"Finally, we can confirm the integrity of our games are given the utmost importance. We have an extensive suite of both automatic detection tools and manual reports, along with a team of Game Integrity Specialists..."

How about NO, Pokerstars?

We have done all the work. We reported this several times. We have been cheated on for years. This is your responsibility. These small refunds is just a joke - not a solution.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:13 AM   #1592
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

this is probably from 500z.. I got 0 and have played 0 hands
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:31 AM   #1593
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbt View Post
I'm more angry at PA for fueling oil into the fire for no reason.
He is a big name, however one can know you as well, especially if one plays PLO.
PA is acting like online poker is dead like online chess and its so far from it.
He has nothing to back up his claims or showcase why the games are "not fair" besides "meh, lost a mill, games are not fair" while in reality he just can't be bothered studying various tools that actually need a time investment instead of "lol it's telling you what to do" (actual decision making software obv. being excluded).

This thread got created after undeniable evidence in form of statistics were available which are presented here - no panicking for nothing.
It also showed how bad the Game Integrity Team was doing their job once again but this time it's a pretty big deal and I hope Stars will do a serious overhaul in that section so that we actually get something positive out of this all. It would be the best move they could do in a long time. If they don't do it on their own we have to be pushing for it.

I obviously don't deny the decision making software (referred here as bots still), however as I said it has nothing to do with a gto solution for multiple reasons. The idea of it existing, being shared around semi-publicly and "us" knowing about it is too absurd and nothing but it. The software would be worth hundreds of thousands if it existed and keeping it a secret would be THE top priority for whoever owned it...
It would be funny if more people realized it is a joke/myth but if they take it for granted you know how it goes.

What I'm trying to say is that one has to be way more responsible when making such comments especially when you're someone known. Do your research and look for facts, use logic and be as precise as possible in such delicate matters.

Sorry for snapping a bit at you. After reading the PA thread and then seeing you write about a myth all over the place I was a tad annoyed. Hope you can see why now.
A late reaction, but players like PA like to play poker clean without all that software, just a keyboard, mouse,screen and pc or laptop.
That is what he likes and says so, and imo he is right.
Because what in gods name has what most regulars and pro's are doing/using to do with the game of poker as such?.
People are playing with calculating software that gives them how they should play to win/get the winning edge in the long run.
I think 75%[of the regulars and pro's] at least couldn't win a 100$ a day without their software, they wouldn't know when to bet, 3-bet or fold without their software.
And they would be eaten alive by players like PA, that plays with his experience and gut and instincts and NO software,, without their precious loads of software.
And hey i can't blame them, if you are able too make money this way [because i do think it takes a lot of work and time and effort, and not everybody can do it] go for it.
But lets not fool each other by saying it is playing poker, because with the amount of software that is being used "too play poker" it is just a card game being used too win money, it could just as well be called higher-lower.
Because there is software now that even tells you the best way to play hand by hand!!, come on it might as well be bots playing each other, because the human is just a executer[85%] for what the software says.
So if you think that there are no comps/software/bots out there that are playing?, well i think you are wrong, because in fact humans are not needed to play poker on-line and make money because the regulars and pro's already play like they are computers/bots, because the software tells them too and they do it.
So i can understand that bots are difficult too catch, because humans themselves play 85-90% like bots/software/comps, and by the time they get caught, they made a whole lot of money already, and they just take another internet connection and do it all over again or take the money and run.
And hey i don't care i don't/can't play on-line, because it bores the life out of me, and i think it has not much to do with how i think and feel a game of poker should be like[something like the difference between looking at sex and doing it yourself] and i can't stand not seeing who is taking my money when i loose.
Because come on there is no substitute imo for live poker, the feeling you get if you get away with a bluff and seeing the reaction of your opponent when you show him, or simply laying down the stone cold nuts, and so much more, but that is me, and that is the game i love, not clicking and/or pushing some buttons, and staring at a screen.
But too deny there is no cheating going on with bots/software in on-line poker, is just being delusional imo.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:41 AM   #1594
cbt
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I got ~250 but it looks like I'm up ~800 vs the known combined "bots".
I've been playing almost only Zoom from 100-500 mostly. I also seem to be up vs them on Z500 for 2,650.
No idea what it looks like taking rake into account which hm2 ignores, but this is what it looks like vs them:


Also seeing how Stars is treeting this I'm pretty sure they don't even take rake into account in their refunds so right now I'm a bit confused regarding mine.

Is there a more complete list than this?

Usually my db includes my lifetime handhistories but I'll request them again now just to make sure I'm not missing anything and will report back once I've imported it all.

Might be helpful if others also mention how much they're up/down to them and how much they've been refunded etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by petjax View Post
.
Only going to point out that you replied during the worst possible time and I won't distract the way more important situation that is going on atm by responding to it.
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:05 AM   #1595
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Only going to point out that you replied during the worst possible time and I won't distract the way more important situation that is going on atm by responding to it.[/QUOTE]

Hey np like i said, i just reacted really on what was said about PA and got carried away and started too vent my unbelief regarding that i personally can't understand why people like playing or do play poker on-line.

Outside the obvious and understandable reason too make money/or a living or are intelligent and lazy and make for them easy money lol.

And why not take away/ban all the help-software that is being used now a days?.

Wouldn't that take care of all the bots?, i am a on-line poker noob, so serious question.

What is more fair then people playing people without the help of any software?.
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Old 09-29-2015, 03:32 PM   #1596
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

got 614 in refund
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:17 PM   #1597
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

275$ refund - zoom500 and a bit zoom200 only
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:24 PM   #1598
Scrudge
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

156.91 $ refund. Played like 60k hands this year at zoom500.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:31 AM   #1599
BoooooooM
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I know im late to the party, just found out about this yesterday. I played a bunch vs these guys, is there anything i could do to help or is this pretty much a closed case at this point?
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:12 AM   #1600
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

I just got refunded 445 Euros from BwinParty. I assume it has something to do with the bots.
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