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Old 07-30-2015, 04:16 AM   #1451
kasabianp
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

rip schwein
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:39 AM   #1452
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by freewilly12 View Post
It's soon over two months since this thread... Stars wants us to forget so there will be less uproar in the event of tiny refund.

Anyone knows what happeneded to Schwein?
As nobody seems to know, I'd guess he made an agreement with Stars to not post any news until the investigation is over.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:08 AM   #1453
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

or there is just nothing left for him to do. all we can all do is wait and see
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Old 07-31-2015, 03:33 AM   #1454
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by cattler View Post
they silenced him because he knew too much
prolly at the IOM shuffling cards in the basement .... keep an eye on suspicions card distribution
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:42 AM   #1455
freewilly12
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by MATT111 View Post
As nobody seems to know, I'd guess he made an agreement with Stars to not post any news until the investigation is over.
I hope this isn't the case. We need him on our side

His dedication on the matter and demands of fair refunds gained a lot of support and put more pressure to Stars to make things right this time.
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:14 PM   #1456
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Are you OK Schwein?

Blink once for yes, twice for no.
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Old 07-31-2015, 04:06 PM   #1457
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Scar18 View Post
or there is just nothing left for him to do. all we can all do is wait and see
Exactly, not much for me to add. Hopefully Stars will pay some nice refunds, wouldnt hold my breath for it though.

As for a statement from poker sites. I dont think admitting some of the biggest winners on midstakes were bots would help the game a lot.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:34 PM   #1458
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
There is commercial software PPT that gives the rank of a hand preflop. I dont know any software that does it for postflop but its possible to code it. For example we can take 100 hands from heroes range at random, calculate their equity on flop vs villians perceived range.
For this to work it has to know every person's range on every flop, turn, and river. If it can figure out in real-time a person should be able to do it given enough time. Computers can't do magic. So describe how you determine someone's range on a turn.

My point is that the BOTs aren't working they way you think they're working.

Hands don't have pre-flop rankings, they only have rankings against a range. JTs > 22. 22 > AKs. But JTs is not ahead of AKs.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:13 AM   #1459
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

There is a new suspicious account playing (credit to Oink for the hint) with very similar data patterns to the bots. 23/26 stats within an 5% interval and 13/26 within 2%.

I've forwarded name/data to Schwein and PS
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:20 PM   #1460
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Could OP or someone knowledgeable postulate on the likely hood of this going on on Bovada vs Pokerstars? Is there any chance those games are remotely fair? Card sharing or bots?

Thank you.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:15 PM   #1461
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

How to beat the bots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp8dt2lRwi8
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:38 PM   #1462
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by smmcoy View Post
For this to work it has to know every person's range on every flop, turn, and river. If it can figure out in real-time a person should be able to do it given enough time. Computers can't do magic. So describe how you determine someone's range on a turn.

My point is that the BOTs aren't working they way you think they're working.

Hands don't have pre-flop rankings, they only have rankings against a range. JTs > 22. 22 > AKs. But JTs is not ahead of AKs.
The bots play a fixed strategy. They just make so much money because their fixed strategy happens to be much better than most small stakes regs' adaptable strategy.

This is simply because the bot designers have probably way more time hitting the books under their belt than the average lazy bum that is a poker player
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:44 AM   #1463
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Well, you can click a few buttons and radically adjust the style of play of a bot in a game as complex as PLO. Humans have trouble doing this.
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:36 AM   #1464
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Has there been any kind of statement from Stars ? Seems ridiculous the accounts are still playing and Stars isn't doing jack.
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:51 AM   #1465
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

none of the accounts identified in this thread are still playing.

one or two of them played a random session or two a month or so ago, but otherwise none have been seen
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Old 08-08-2015, 07:11 AM   #1466
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Do we have any information about IPoker dealing with it?

Most of the bots there seem to be gone (some days after this thread started) but at least one is still playing a lot PLO200+ (I do not know about PLO100 and lower).

Last edited by potbet; 08-08-2015 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 08-08-2015, 07:50 AM   #1467
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

NL50-100 @iPoker is swarming with bots, luckily they have huge leaks.
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Old 08-13-2015, 02:59 PM   #1468
Tonnikala
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'Simulator' vs bots(?) help!

Hi all, this all started about an year ago when I was playing hyper husngs on stars at lowstakes. At the time my account was ‘hacked/tweaked’ so that since then I’ve been forced to play these setupgames vs bots in all low/microstake games (all the same no matter do I play sng’s, tourneys, cash…). Here is something I noticed and nothing has changed so far. This is like pure hell and I’ve found nothing I can do

Every game I played I started to notice same type of situations/patterns repeating at all-in and other pre/postflop scenarios which made me suspicious. It is weird and this is some big collusion where every game is somehow setup and im everytime playing against bots where my cards, villains cards or tablecards don’t come like it used to in normal distributions/variance but are somehow controlled as are the outcomes in every scenario.

These bots (this is kind of weird thing) chat back (one guy told to “play very slow” other what to do in certain situations) and I think they chat behind the bots because then again their playing style/speeds are so robotic in a way. OR if they are humans im VERY confused that is it that the cards are only setup but then again villains actions are also “similar type” in every spot. Hard to explain…

it’s like ‘simulator/system’ (cant find better word to describe this) where everything just mimics normal playing but truly all villains, mine and tablecards are controlled. 

I’ve also tried to make other accounts on other sites but every site is same at these stakes and I cannot afford to cash-in that much to get straight away play like 30$ sng’s. So far I haven’t done any study at PT4 about this other then checked average time of 1sng which was more then year before. Also the graph looks too steady.

Other observation:

These things I noticed while playing hyper hu’s but I think these apply also in other formats:

- timings
sometimes insta-actions in a spots which would require thinking
actions aren’t coherent in other ways too like first the play really slow then get fast (don’t know is that something to do to get x-amout of cards/hour or something?)
but anyway timings are too similar which can be noticed when you go play at midstakes vs actual humans those are more credible

- situations
if you play same style, situations/patterns are also similar kind of. But when you do something differently you start to get a little different scenarios on next hands.

- All-ins
are like a thriller everytime but soon you can already start to predict outcome because of similarity cards come (and even before flopcards appear) and get a feel like OTT that your going to pair on A OTR and so on

- game length
HU’s last usually very long (sometimes simulator lets you win or lose quick to keep it convinsing)

- boards
atleast it feels like im getting more paired boards on postflop on some street/all-ins (but haven’t done any study of this)
also if I do what ‘system’ perceives as on mistake I usually get like the harderst card/betting scenario on next street/streets to deal with

- holecards/spots
there seem to be ‘right’ action to do in many(?) situations. If you do wrong you instantly get a feel you are getting punished and so you will so you start to get hunch what you should do

- Spin’n’go
most times other player drops pretty quick (maybe with some crappy hand all-in) and HU part lasts eternity

- Tourneys
tried only couple times some small bin’s and freerolls, on freeroll at the start I got like many good hands and got a big stack quick by doing what the system percives as ‘right decisions’

Also I play as 40min sessions so I noticed that usually first session system gives some wins but then it gets harder (though not so sure cause I haven’t played that much long sessions cause playing these is so f*kin boring compared if it would actually be normal games)


All and all there are not like fun spots and game feels like too ‘mechanic’ compared what it used to be before or when registering middlestake+ game.
IMO All these are best noticed by HU and if you play really fast these patterns are more easy to recognize. If you then go play like couple midstake games you immediately atleast intuatively feel that whole game dynamic change, gameflow, more ‘normal’ spots and playing is actually fun and not such a ‘mechanical’ boring doing.


if anyone suspect this to your account – maybe just watch low/microstake games (hu’s again maybe) and then compare by watching players playing midstakes+ and notice the difference on boardtextures, timings, cards and situations in general.

Now I watched some pokerstreams from twitch.tv and was like I this true – every streamer who played games below midstakes I noticed these same patterns and situations. I mean either this is some huge collusion or im being paranoid o.O (im like superparanoid that if someone comment something negative this that he belongs that group errr :/) But im sure about my account that this is not the poker I used to play over year ago.

I could propably take video of this also. I e-mailed stars about this and they investigated but didn’t find anything suspicous and said there is nothing more they could do because if they would botmakers could get hint of it. I am really frustrated and can’t find no way out then get roll enough to play midstakes+ which is like awful – if anyone has any help I’d appreciate a lot… :’(
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Old 08-13-2015, 03:08 PM   #1469
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Congratz you have joined my ignore list
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Old 08-13-2015, 04:38 PM   #1470
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Re: 'Simulator' vs bots(?) help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonnikala View Post
Every game I played I started to notice same type of situations/patterns repeating at all-in and other pre/postflop scenarios which made me suspicious. It is weird and this is some big collusion where every game is somehow setup and im everytime playing against bots where my cards, villains cards or tablecards donít come like it used to in normal distributions/variance but are somehow controlled as are the outcomes in every scenario.
Whoever said the '06 players are all gone.
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Old 08-14-2015, 05:37 PM   #1471
madsamot
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by freewilly12 View Post
Did you really spot "BOOTTLEGGER"?

Bootleger22 has been playing some lately and is not the same account.
You are right, was indeed bootlegger22. My bad!
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Old 08-14-2015, 06:52 PM   #1472
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Tonnikala A mod moved your post to the wrong thread. They should be in the great debate.
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Old 08-15-2015, 04:31 AM   #1473
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Who can I contact about bots on stars? There are some new very weird accounts playing lately.
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Old 08-15-2015, 05:24 AM   #1474
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Send a mail to PS and let me know the accounts. I'll take a look at the stats.

Also, I'm still monitoring one account playing mainly lowstakes but with identical stats to the bots
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Old 08-15-2015, 05:25 PM   #1475
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Ty grethe
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