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Old 06-29-2015, 08:59 PM   #1276
Mig
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Schwein Awesome job seriously but this is kind of depressing that pokerstars prefer to be reactive in a poorly way instead of being proactive. By letting the botters experiment and improve in real time is just going to make it a lot harder to detect them. PokerStars really need to step up their game and be more agressive/proactive otherwise I bet that really soon this botters will be able to pass a turing test with no problem which is really sad.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:50 PM   #1277
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
Now I see only two possible explanations for this, they all work closely together or they have the same program that is updated for all of them same time. Samanta and seregaxx were kind enough to chime in and assure us that they dont work with anyone else, so...
The overnight change in stats is stunning, so I agree with the above quote.

I don't have a RIO account like Seregaxx does, so can't check this out, but is it possible he learned something specific from a video by Janne 'Durian' Juutilainen uploaded on October 3rd 2014? The video was titled Defending the BB in PLO. I presume it was a pretty good video, because when it was mentioned on twitter, Joey said "ffs nooooo", whilst napsuss described it as "gold".
Is there anything specific in that video about defending vs minraises? Maybe Seregaxx somehow saw the video a couple of days earlier than everyone else (??), and immediately updated the suspected bot's algorithms. The other 3 accounts changed their BB play on the exact day or day after the video appeared on RIO.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:03 PM   #1278
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

your strict privacy policy sure does make me feel a lot safer, stars.
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:45 AM   #1279
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by kelnel View Post
No one has received a clear response other than a for email yes. Because of that we cannot be certain of what is going on and the following is speculation at this point but the fact that they are able to receive money certainly points towards the fact that stars is letting them withdraw their funds. Most likely because they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt or something. I would be very astonished to see them playing again though. Most of the time stars will deem them "suspect" and as such will bar them from playing on stars any further.
So their accounts get closed and they open 7 more the next day?
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:05 AM   #1280
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
The overnight change in stats is stunning, so I agree with the above quote.

I don't have a RIO account like Seregaxx does, so can't check this out, but is it possible he learned something specific from a video by Janne 'Durian' Juutilainen uploaded on October 3rd 2014? The video was titled Defending the BB in PLO. I presume it was a pretty good video, because when it was mentioned on twitter, Joey said "ffs nooooo", whilst napsuss described it as "gold".
Is there anything specific in that video about defending vs minraises? Maybe Seregaxx somehow saw the video a couple of days earlier than everyone else (??), and immediately updated the suspected bot's algorithms. The other 3 accounts changed their BB play on the exact day or day after the video appeared on RIO.
The TLDR of that video would be: "never fold your BB to a single raise".

A bit of an exaggeration but not that far off. And I'd say it was one of the most impactful poker videos in the past years.

Would be interested in seeing a handful of other regs stats in this situation and when they started changing (I know mine didn't change until couple of months later but that was because I was slow to watch/apply, I'm sure many changed almost immediately).
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:20 AM   #1281
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

At this point I am like **** online poker, where can I buy this omaha bot.
I am ready to work for 5% of the profit.
Russian botters Pm me, I'm a big fan of Russian culture- long live Putin!

'I'm like a machine, I don't even eat. I hustle like a zombie, I don't even sleep.

P.S. Obama is a pussy

Last edited by reziduer; 06-30-2015 at 04:25 AM. Reason: If you can't pm, please post an e-mail for contact itt.
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:26 AM   #1282
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by krolewicz View Post
b/c it will OBVIOUSLY scare the **** out of the fish. Which is NUT LOW FOR POKER EVER. jfc
Thats the whole point of it! You´ve to scare the **** out of everybody, otherwise stars will not react. your thinking is really level one and kinda selfish tbh. think a bit forward what u want, a site where maybe few more fishes play or a safe site which have work their asses of to get the trust from their customers back and bring the stocks back on track? im no native speaker so hard for me to explain but tbh every somehow clear mind should understand that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirin View Post
In light of this I agree that people should be trying to get as much publicity as possible. Bad headlines forcing sites to take this stuff more seriously is preferable to it continuing unpunished, or even half heartedly punished.

Its insane that a company the size of stars has a security department that has been outperformed by one guy with a PTR account and some spare time, and insulting that the profits and rake aren't being paid back to players even when they are caught.
agree, mind-blowing!
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:30 AM   #1283
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
The overnight change in stats is stunning, so I agree with the above quote.

I don't have a RIO account like Seregaxx does, so can't check this out, but is it possible he learned something specific from a video by Janne 'Durian' Juutilainen uploaded on October 3rd 2014? The video was titled Defending the BB in PLO.
And from RIO comments:

Quote:
Jens Kyllönen 9 months ago
If I had to pick one video out of RIO which is going to cut most into our profits it would be this. Very good video but a sin to be teaching this stuff.
Oh irony!
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:38 AM   #1284
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by reziduer View Post
'I'm like a machine, I don't even eat. I hustle like a zombie, I don't even sleep.
Back in the day, the only weakpoint of a robot professional poker player was hungry and sleepy... is nothing sacred?
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Old 06-30-2015, 05:01 AM   #1285
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

4somniare playing 200z now :/

edit: seregax too

Last edited by papahook; 06-30-2015 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 06-30-2015, 05:26 AM   #1286
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

seriously now, WHAT THE **** is stars doing?
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:05 AM   #1287
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

WTF....
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:08 AM   #1288
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

drozd77 playing PLO 100 now...
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:31 AM   #1289
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

just keep quite - everything will be fine...

Spoiler:
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:52 AM   #1290
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

samantha back in the games too
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:09 AM   #1291
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Is there a legit MSPLO player from Kazakhstan? Would help to know in case there's new accounts popping up.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:51 AM   #1292
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by MATT111 View Post
Is there a legit MSPLO player from Kazakhstan? Would help to know in case there's new accounts popping up.
insaf777 is from there, i believe he's down over half a mil lifetime tho, so not sure if that counts

the fact that all the bots are back sickens me to my stomach btw
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:52 AM   #1293
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

i assume stars will issue a final statement soon then. accounts playing should mean they were not able to find anything. once this happens we need to organize.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:04 AM   #1294
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by TrollAccount View Post
Thats the whole point of it! You´ve to scare the **** out of everybody, otherwise stars will not react. your thinking is really level one and kinda selfish tbh. think a bit forward what u want, a site where maybe few more fishes play or a safe site which have work their asses of to get the trust from their customers back and bring the stocks back on track? im no native speaker so hard for me to explain but tbh every somehow clear mind should understand that!
This is just a jibber jabber /w some random terms that don't really mean anything.

What is important, for me - and should be for anyone else in these games -, is that my EV is higher with both bots and fishes than with neither of those. Simple as that. And that's all what matters.
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:19 AM   #1295
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrachBummEnte View Post
we need to organize.
this!!!

if i remember correctly you talked to a prof for statistics.
as a ton of players with very very similar stats do not seem to be proof enough for stars:
is there a way to find out how (un)likely those close to identical stats are for human players? are there some comparable games where such a thing has been tested?
there is a fair chance that stars security is bad at statistics and interpreting it (as i am and probably most of us are) and does not know how to prove things statistically. so, it would be great if we were able to prove why a ton of "similarities" is a proof for non-human poker decisions.

is there a chance to compare to the skier-"case"? the "skier-guys" are basically playing like a bot (because reading from charts) in most of the situations (95%+) and they have a lot of very very similar to identical stats because of this. there must be a way to proof that such similarities are not possible without a software used while playing. and in plo a software to navigate charts efficiently is beyond imagination as there are too many different scenarios and the game is way more complex playing 100bb+ than playing short in hu sng.


it is a very sad day today
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:30 AM   #1296
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by potbet View Post
is there a way to find out how (un)likely those close to identical stats are for human players?
yes this is possible, but not trivial. i talked to schwein about that already in private, but don't know if it was done already and what stars' take is on this.
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:40 AM   #1297
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

Well, this was a fun read.
At least you only have to take notes on one player instead of 30. I look forward to the exploiting bots thread that one of you will start. Should also make a great read.
Good luck with everything.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:39 AM   #1298
Didrik
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

How about someone writes down a press-tip containing proof (that a reported would understand) about the botring and stars is allowing this.

I'm sure that would make it out. Media would love another bad thing to write about poker
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:53 AM   #1299
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

This is ******* horrible! It is a joke against anyone playing and participating in the investigation / building the case.

The evidence is so strong and still the accounts are unfrozen. Pokerstars integrity team with (another) major fail!
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:53 PM   #1300
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them

pokerstars actively posts in the "software feedback" thread
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