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Old 06-07-2015, 09:45 AM   #101
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I have created the following spreadsheet using data from TrollAccounts (thx!) post for the alleged botters and using my own HEM for the legit regs.




I have used the stats BB Agg, Agg, 3bet, sqz.
G column is Agg/BB Agg ratio
H column is 3bet/sqz ratio
J column is =G*H which produces a number that has no meaning on its own its just used by me to compare accounts.

The Russian PTR screenshots are prime evidence against 17 accounts.
I tried to show further links between those 17 accounts. I have noticed that all the alleged botters have 3bet very similar to squeze which is rare for legit regs that usually have a much tighter squeze then 3bet range. Same goes for BB Agg compared to overall Agg, most legit regs are slightly more passive from the BB then all the other positions. There are 11 bot accounts in this screen because we have hands for only 11 of them. The 11 legit regulars accounts are simply 11 highest volume grinders from the same stakes from my DB.

Potbet did something similar around post 70, where he sorted all the accounts in his DB by 2 different postflop stats (he decided to keep those stats a secret) and the alleged botters were sitting all next to each other in the screen.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:04 AM   #102
madsamot
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I have played with some of these guys a lot.(Fedor,Samantha and seregaxx)

I've seen seregazxx chat a lot, and I have also chatted with Fedor. I have seen all of them tilt.

Serega plays very different from Samantha and Fedor. I can also remember serega had a timingtell on snapacting. I don't think any of them are a bot. Fedor and Samantha used to have a very simular style tho.

Fedor and Samantha used to play the same tables a lot earlier(up to PLO600), but around 6 months ago Samantha switched to zoom and only play reg tables sporadically. After the transition to zoom, samanthas stats got a lot thighter.(Very common when going from reg tbls to zoom).

Fedor is somewhat wierd tho, never plays zoom, or deep ante. I don't know a single other reg who does that. But for all I know, he can have his reasons.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:49 AM   #103
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

So just to conclude the essence of this thread, if you have lol LAG stats + you come from Russia, chances are we´ll call you out for being a bot (just because we can, don´t ask for evidence, please).
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Old 06-07-2015, 11:49 AM   #104
freewilly12
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumpfmampf View Post
So just to conclude the essence of this thread, if you have lol LAG stats + you come from Russia, chances are we´ll call you out for being a bot (just because we can, don´t ask for evidence, please).
Most of the accounts are not "lol LAG" at all.

I personally belive the "lol LAG" -one ITT is not a bot though.
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Old 06-07-2015, 02:29 PM   #105
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

There is lot of talk about someone being or not being a bot. Imo it be stupid just to let the bot play all the time. Person(s) who has made the bots is clearly a really good player. It would be really important sometimes play on your own just to mix it up, talk to chat, tilt some money away etc.. Just play 50/50 or w/e with your bot.
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Old 06-07-2015, 02:36 PM   #106
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
I have created the following spreadsheet using data from TrollAccounts (thx!) post for the alleged botters and using my own HEM for the legit regs.




I have used the stats BB Agg, Agg, 3bet, sqz.
G column is Agg/BB Agg ratio
H column is 3bet/sqz ratio
J column is =G*H which produces a number that has no meaning on its own its just used by me to compare accounts.

The Russian PTR screenshots are prime evidence against 17 accounts.
I tried to show further links between those 17 accounts. I have noticed that all the alleged botters have 3bet very similar to squeze which is rare for legit regs that usually have a much tighter squeze then 3bet range. Same goes for BB Agg compared to overall Agg, most legit regs are slightly more passive from the BB then all the other positions. There are 11 bot accounts in this screen because we have hands for only 11 of them. The 11 legit regulars accounts are simply 11 highest volume grinders from the same stakes from my DB.

Potbet did something similar around post 70, where he sorted all the accounts in his DB by 2 different postflop stats (he decided to keep those stats a secret) and the alleged botters were sitting all next to each other in the screen.

some of those names are really bots?? that is ****ing scary if so

Last edited by ChicagoJoey; 06-07-2015 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 06-07-2015, 02:40 PM   #107
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

it is confirmed ipushmyprious was a bot and banned??? wow


wow


When is cobus getting banned
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:09 PM   #108
GotBluffing
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Those stats are just sick The more I read the thread the more I get convinced that it might be a really clever bot ring. FedorZaysev does bumhunt weak players up to 5/10 (although, he plays pretty mechanical on 1/2 zoom) Additionally, I saw seregaxxx spew hard several times. My best guess is that those guys use some sort of software that directs them in the game.
I really hope that Stars will promptly find the solution to this problem and poker will not follow the faith of online chess and backgammon.
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:17 PM   #109
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Schwein can you message me on twitter/fb? Can't send any messages on here to your account yet
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:17 PM   #110
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Stars should check it for sure. That xls is really really strange..
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:19 PM   #111
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
it is confirmed ipushmyprious was a bot and banned??? wow


wow


When is cobus getting banned
He was banned, a total of 10 out of 17 accounts from my list is already banned or at least didnt play a single hand in the last 4 months.

Thats a graphic representation of the spreadsheet from my previous post. Red dots are banned accounts, purple are other accounts from my list. Green dots represent legit high volume regs.



The major and main evidence are Russia PTR screenshots, showing 17 accounts with extremely similar postflop stats. Additional minor evidence is potbets post https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...6&postcount=72 and my spreadsheet.

The 17 accounts were preselected based on Russian PTR, where I have browsed and checked almost every single reg from PL 100-400 stakes.

To make more scientific potbet and I have come up with 4 different postflop stats that are not included in Russian PTR. Those stats very rare amongst legit regs and yet there are shared by all the suspicious accounts (11/11 that we managed to get HEM screenshots for). I mean all suspicious account went 11/11 on those 4 stats which makes it 44/44.
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:26 PM   #112
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by potbet View Post
just wanted to add a screenshot that shows the unique stats they play (unbalanced hyperaggressive in some spots postflop). DB was filtered for regulars and players listed top-bottom by these 2 specific stats. The yellow markings are the 4 IPokernicks mentioned. DB is filtered for regulars on Stars and Ipoker


wow
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:38 PM   #113
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

One thing come into my mind. Basically we can only brainstorming so here is my newest idea.
I played last year from 07-12.2014 PLO200 so played a lot of hands with seregaxx and other suspected regs but with seregaxx we chatted a lot.
During that period seregaxx was a new reg there but he has brutal unortodox stats like 25%3bet in BU and had obv lot higher overall 3bet and VPIP stats like nowdays.
Basically he played in a totally different style postflop as well.
So I have talked a lot with seregaxx and he said that he played HU PLO SNG previously a lot on the highest stakes as well (like he played sometimes vs Zigmund) but PLO SNG dried up completly so he switched CG.
Now I saw this thread:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...tware-1533249/

So I think seregaxx could be some kind of contact to these guys and / or they could implement that software to PLO as well.
Thats my conspiracy theory for today.
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:44 PM   #114
nwb123
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
He was banned, a total of 10 out of 17 accounts from my list is already banned or at least didnt play a single hand in the last 4 months.

Thats a graphic representation of the spreadsheet from my previous post. Red dots are banned accounts, purple are other accounts from my list. Green dots represent legit high volume regs.



The major and main evidence are Russia PTR screenshots, showing 17 accounts with extremely similar postflop stats. Additional minor evidence is potbets post https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...6&postcount=72 and my spreadsheet.

The 17 accounts were preselected based on Russian PTR, where I have browsed and checked almost every single reg from PL 100-400 stakes.

To make more scientific potbet and I have come up with 4 different postflop stats that are not included in Russian PTR. Those stats very rare amongst legit regs and yet there are shared by all the suspicious accounts (11/11 that we managed to get HEM screenshots for). I mean all suspicious account went 11/11 on those 4 stats which makes it 44/44.
you're actually doing a great job man, well done! just let stars know about all the research you've done...
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Old 06-07-2015, 03:57 PM   #115
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Hmmm wouldn't have guessed susaniin was a bot, just pretty aggro and runs like god against me so let's go with bot
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Old 06-07-2015, 04:19 PM   #116
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

SusaaNiN indeed, how could I miss him. Make it 12/12 with my spreadsheet and his Russian PTR stats are in the OP, they match the others. Also added another legit reg as another green dot.



Red dots - on my list and banned by Stars
Orange dots - on my list and still playing
Green dots - legit regs
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Old 06-07-2015, 04:48 PM   #117
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

What the ****.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:03 PM   #118
PokerBananas
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I've played a ton of volume with the orange dots. Going to be so tilt if they are bots. Have chatted with Feydor while playing. I've always been suspicious of Somniaire, guy literally runs like god playing "weird"
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:19 PM   #119
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Of all teh games there are teh moast complex gets crushed by bots/dreammachines... ****ing siq
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:49 PM   #120
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

If this is a major bot ring operated by the same people (stats suggest) then it should be easy to have the bots communicate holecards and gain massive advantages. This is one part of the explanation of the huge winrates.
The other part is them never getting tilted, tired or lose focus.

I don't think a single bot can beat a good reg (yet) if factors such as tilt are ignored, but they are major. Holecard sharing is even worse.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:26 PM   #121
farside
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

i have played in jan and feb vs almost all of these plo100 players (totalsuccess,topdog669 ,thoughtsaway ,RichardLionH,smellurbux ,Razdavay7) and lost about 100bis during that period (60-70k hands), about 80bis under ev.
i think its time to get some information from stars. if anyone wanna know more detail or share data, pls pm me.

btw wasnt topdog, thoughtsaway located in canada, cant remember exactly?
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:48 PM   #122
freewilly12
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by farside View Post
btw wasnt topdog, thoughtsaway located in canada, cant remember exactly?
Topdog, totalsucces and richardlionh all located in Russia.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:56 PM   #123
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

The "scientific" way of checking how different 2 accounts are from each other is to measure the distance between their respective stats. I did it for 1 banned bot accounts: BOOTTLEGGER, 3 active accounts from my list: IMissFender,Samanta81,SusaaNIN and 4 legit regulars from PL200: N@T@L@T,Shuller_A1t,Nakamator,Bagrovui. I picked those legit accounts because they have played a lot of hands and are mostly Russian.

The stats of banned bots/alleged bots are here http://i57.tinypic.com/2n84qow.png
I entered them into an excel spreadsheet here:


I will not post the stats of legit players to protect their privacy.

Afterwards I have calculated the distance between those 8 accounts mentioned earlier. I have used "Squared Euclidean distance" for it. It can be found here http://i61.tinypic.com/6ell61.png


Thats the distance between following account pairs in form of a graph



The 6 first columns are BOOTLEGGER,Samanta81,IMissFender,SusaaNiN compared in pairs.

The next 6 columns are 4 legit accounts compared in pairs.

The last column is an alleged bot SuSaaNiN compared to legit Russian grinder N@T@L@T.

Small column means small distance, accounts are very similar, big column means the accounts are completely different.

EDIT: I didnt enter more accounts because typing all of it into excel is a huge pain in the ass. I will put all my research on Google Drive on Tuesday and make it free for everyone to download, including the spreadsheet to calculate the difference between any 2 accounts.

Last edited by Schwein; 06-07-2015 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 06-07-2015, 09:20 PM   #124
kutty2
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrachBummEnte View Post
If this is a major bot ring operated by the same people (stats suggest) then it should be easy to have the bots communicate holecards and gain massive advantages. This is one part of the explanation of the huge winrates.
The other part is them never getting tilted, tired or lose focus.

I don't think a single bot can beat a good reg (yet) if factors such as tilt are ignored, but they are major. Holecard sharing is even worse.
Good point
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Old 06-07-2015, 09:21 PM   #125
Pastafiore
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I think those are not bots cause they ~all do reply in chat sometimes, BUT they do cheat somekind of way, they have ~identic game styles, some are littlebit looser/tighter, we have talkd about that first time long time ago with some regs and they agreed. IF those players does not cheat.

copied that list what some1 has posted:

FedorZaysev -Cheater, 100%sure.

Samanta81 -Cheater, 100%sure.

seregaxx -Cheater, 99,9%sure.

bagrovui -Does not cheat, bad reg who is not playing even close same way as those cheaters

imissfender -not sure, havent palyed much with him but maybe..

ipushmyprius -Cheater, 100%sure.

tatar-kyzy -never heard.

yoo4 -does not cheat, ~solid ok reg imo.

YouSoNaive -havent played much/not at all with him.

N@T@L@T -Cheater, 99,9%sure.

Fifa74ever -never heard.

BOOTTLEGGER -havent played much/not at all with him.

emper0r92 (Belarus) -Cheater, 100%sure.

Susaanin -Cheater, 100%sure.

FataMorganax -i dont think so, havent noticed.

Flash_ua (ukraine) -i dont think so, havent noticed.

gantenbien29 -havent played much/not at all with him.

GosuDiac -havent played much/not at all with him.

PushMeSlowly -i dont think so, havent noticed.

BcexnopByH -does not cheat, ~solid ok reg imo.

z81ima -does not cheat, ~solid ok reg imo.

ponkrat18 -does not cheat, ~solid ok reg imo.

jnsan1 -never heard.

HorticaRUS -i dont think so, havent noticed.

jansan1 -never heard.

grystno -never heard.

pokerbanderu -never heard.

MIB2121 -i dont think so, havent noticed.

Kot_Spartak -never heard.


-at least one cheater you have forgot: MDUczuczukwe

Last edited by Pastafiore; 06-07-2015 at 09:38 PM.
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