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Old 06-13-2015, 09:41 PM   #926
freewilly12
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

@seregaxx

more questions:

1) How many captchas you type on your usual day? Does your finger ever get sore?

2) Does your Poker Stars client run in a virtual machine?

3) Which method you use: screen scraping or dll injection/hooking?

4) Have you seen The Terminator movies?
(If you haven't 4th was crap don't waste your time on it.)

5) If you are familiar with the movies mentioned do you ever lose your sleep over the reasonable threat that your AI might turn against you (and the man kind) like Skynet did ?


Last edited by freewilly12; 06-13-2015 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:06 PM   #927
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityHunter View Post


sry guys, do u think that there's one or more bots within these 7 players?
The list for PL100 and up is complete, no need to keep looking. If its someone from PL50 on this list then PM his screen name to me.
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:35 PM   #928
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Seregaxx with a 3-barrel overbet bluff..... Obvious bot is obvious. The only valid explanation for this with some kind of human interaction is some kind of plo-snowie
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:20 AM   #929
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by freewilly12 View Post
They have their corporate policy catching ToS-violators and I guess they just see players/posters demanding fast actions as some sort of lynching mob.

I think the evidence is damning enough in this case but looks like they will take their time before they comply with us (if they will).

Maybe to just show they are the ones in charge?

Below the first reply I received from Stars game integrity from seven months ago (after 3 months the 3 players I reported were gone):

Hello xxxx,

Thank you for contacting PokerStars. Your email was escalated to me as a member of the Game Integrity Team.

It would actually be quite difficult for players to identify bots at the tables. To draw an analogy, it would be difficult to distinguish whether a sculpture was made by a human or robot simply by looking at the final sculpture itself. The important information in this example would be to look at what tools were used, how long it took to make the sculpture, and so on. In the bot detection world, this relates to how the account interacts with the PokerStars client, how they input their bets and raises, and so on. Consequently, many of the key identifiers of bot use are largely indistinguishable to end-users such as yourself.

Nevertheless, given that your particular case appears to be a strongly founded investigation, we welcome you to email us with their User IDs, along with the reasons for your suspicion, and we will investigate accordingly.

I look forward to hear from you.

Regards,

xxxxxx.
Game Integrity Team
****ty analysis. Humans are fantastic at identifying fakes, and have amazing, instantaneous feats of intuition. The more of an expert one is, the more ability they have in identifying a counterfeit. When asked, people often just reply that "something felt wrong", which is what I'm gathering a lot off from this thread. Heard about this in the wake of counterfeit art sales a few years ago on NPR.

So a potential solution here would be to have PLO players employed as bot detectors.

Last edited by hERESY; 06-14-2015 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:15 AM   #930
Schwein
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
Thanks for the questions guys will be live in about 20



Joey talked recently to Sauce about the whole "bot ring" scandal (5-15 minute). It was a few days ago when not all of the evidence was out there. Anyway Sauce, who is arguably one of the best PLO minds out there, believes that there are only 2 possible explanations for those similarities between those accounts.

1. Those are outright bots, which is by far the most likely explanation.

2. Thats a group of players sitting in one room and working hard on their game together.

I am glad that Seregaxx assured all of us that he isnt working on his game with anyone else and he does not know the other guys apart from one (he didnt specify which one).
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:24 AM   #931
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Schwein, reading his posts, it is very likely that one or both of the following about Seregaxx was true in my opinion:

Someone other than the "person" who monitors/plays the Seregaxx account on stars made those posts

Seregaxx did not tell the truth in much of their posts (the contradictions alone back this one up)
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:39 AM   #932
alexo18
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Millions stolen by bot ... I'm eagerly waiting the $13.72 dollars pokerstars is going to refund me. Oh I forgot they keep the rake generated by bots so its only $8.99
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:28 AM   #933
AVO
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
That what seregaxx is saying proves only that he is out of ammo in this case, he just also told he is watching videos from rio, but his english is that bad he cant write without translator here?
Well, good spot, but many regular-groups translate rio videos in Russian with the help of pro-dubbers.
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:56 AM   #934
reziduer
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them


Last edited by reziduer; 06-14-2015 at 07:00 AM. Reason: can't resist to post this one sorry
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Old 06-14-2015, 08:48 AM   #935
TheRealThing
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Just thinking out loud


Poker sites need to get with the times.

Do away with thick clients. Run everything on cloud and virtualised infrastructure such as Citrix. Poker Client doesn't run on your PC, it runs in their data centre, or AWS or whatever.

Can be displayed either in a virtual desktop to you or in a seamless window where you wouldn't know that your machine isn't actually running it.

There's a bunch of funky anti-OCR measures to make it hard to screen scrape. No local processes to get hold of.
Helper apps would be extremely difficult to get to work.
Seating scripts gone. Even if you were smart enough to get one to work, at least everyone's playing poker on the Isle of Man, so lobby updates would be lightning fast, so proximity issues would also be done with.
No updates, they just push the new tested updated version into production in their environment.

The hard bit might be huds. To allow them I'm thinking integrate the licensing optional into the Citrix environment. You have a configurable hud only that runs in the same environment, with a time-delayed drip feed of hand histories back to your client PC to be imported into your "thick client" PT/HEM for analysis later etc.
In fact the site would have complete control over what software can be put into the environment to interact with a live client.

Some of this may or may not be doable, but frankly this would be a pretty low-tech project for a decent project team with the right skills. JFC, with the right infrastructure budget I could get half this done for them in a month and probably only need help on the OCR and security stuff where I'd just hire someone with Military or Financial experience or both who would sort that in their sleep.

It wouldn't be cheap, but realistically forget about poker, this is closer to how technology solutions are delivered in 2015.
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Old 06-14-2015, 09:55 AM   #936
MX210
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I don't know if anyone is familiar with the NewJersey games but you seem to require some kind of physical usb stick in your computer to play there. Anything illegal, your funds are removed and it's all linked to your real identity. You can't fake an account easily there. You also need to be physically in the state as it tracks your location.

Seeing how some of these NJ sites have 4+ fish per table up to midstakes, the recreational player don't mind these measures. That would be a very easy fix to most of the cheating.
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Old 06-14-2015, 10:30 AM   #937
jas
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Whilst honest hard working players have been reporting these colluding bots since October 2014 and working hard on their game, pokerstars security team have clearly been twiddling their thumbs and scratching their balls.
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Old 06-14-2015, 12:23 PM   #938
apo5tol
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

It seems that none of them is playing now. That's an accomplishment already imo
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:27 PM   #939
potbet
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

yes, i have not seem any of them except yesterday (seregaxx played yesterday) and today. there was also just one of them playing on ipoker yesterday as far as i am aware. i seen none of them today so far.


@dan
come on. you know better how to identify bots. accusing a player just because of a bad played hand, a big suckout and some ratholing, seriously?
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:34 PM   #940
sauhund
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

i donīt think dan knows better. imo this thread is in danger of getting derailed or becoming some sort of "poker is rigged"bs thread, so i would honestly ask everybody to post here to have something meanigful to say and are directly affected by the issue. otherwise you should read through it and form your own opinions, but no need to post everything.
this is one of the most serious issues we had in a long time. take it seriously people.

edit: could someone plz repost the complete list of all 27 screennames accused of being bots now?

Last edited by sauhund; 06-14-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:45 PM   #941
Kreatief
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

should be in the OP. Theres a list that has been inserted by a mod.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:28 PM   #942
papahook
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Fedor 4 tabling 200z
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:37 PM   #943
raikkonen3
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

If british papers actually took this up then the spin on it would be terrible for online poker, at least give pokerstars and players a chance to solve it before making lasting damage.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:54 PM   #944
riddix
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

how is this FedorZaysev guy still playing like he doesnt even care ... on a bunch of reg, three zoom tables and chatting with other players saying that he will always be there. some balls on that "guy"
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:36 PM   #945
AmeXCetuRioN
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Old 06-14-2015, 03:46 PM   #946
AmeXCetuRioN
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexo18 View Post
Millions stolen by bot ... I'm eagerly waiting the $13.72 dollars pokerstars is going to refund me. Oh I forgot they keep the rake generated by bots so its only $8.99
I second that by my $54.69 refund... Love how Stars has been a loyal vendor to us...... ROFLLFLFL
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:12 PM   #947
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

no reason to ban huds and trackers, botmakers are going to have their stuff anyway so humans not having huds would just make it worse
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:17 PM   #948
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Did I miss something or did PokerStars really not comment on this yet on 2p2?
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:28 PM   #949
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Its crazy as bad they were if they weren't able to detect the whole live cheating happening.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:50 PM   #950
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm Down View Post
no reason to ban huds and trackers, botmakers are going to have their stuff anyway so humans not having huds would just make it worse
yeah, without them we'd never detect anything
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