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Old 06-13-2015, 04:06 PM   #901
reziduer
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

" though it is not often easy if you are in tilt, for instance.''

If he wrote this must be a level. No poker player goes "in tilt" I would think.
Probably his English is really that bad.

"My strategy depend on the opponent I play and my game knowledge. If the game is the same for the last two years, why should I change my strategy?"

- We all know that he changed his strategy. On top of that, the closed bot accounts with similar stats, transcribed in this thread don't have exploitative styles but much more the opposite.

Last edited by reziduer; 06-13-2015 at 04:11 PM. Reason: english sox.
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Old 06-13-2015, 04:22 PM   #902
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Based on prior experiences with stars and their security team, they will take as long as possible to take action in hopes that this story will die down

Their security team have been incredibly incompetent and arrogant. Ignoring players reporting these accounts numerous times since October 2014 . Stars security team needs a massive overhaul. They obviously are out of their depth and don't understand poker enough.
A lot of them need to be fired.

I'm still playing with the bots every day. I think they may not be banned because pokerstars want to monitor them to gain evidence. They should have done this ages ago when players voiced their concerns.

More publicity the better. Trust me. I'm speaking from experience. What happened to wcrgrider in regards to being hacked happened to many other 25/50 regs but wcgrider got refunded and we didn't. I'm glad he got refunded because it was obvious his opponent could see his hole cards. What was different? He's a famous player and they feared the bad publicity?

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...tyler-1359054/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...ng-ftp-773642/

Last edited by jas; 06-13-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 04:42 PM   #903
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

The only way for him to prove hes legit would be to play a few hours with everyone watching his computer in real time and him having the same exact stats he always has.
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Old 06-13-2015, 04:52 PM   #904
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

That what seregaxx is saying proves only that he is out of ammo in this case, he just also told he is watching videos from rio, but his english is that bad he cant write without translator here?
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:08 PM   #905
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mig View Post
Schwein :

What would be the best way for Sergei to dissociate himself from that group of bot ?

Finding a couple of stats that are radically, statistically, different from the group ? There is dozens of stats available in HEM, surely if he wasn't the owner or part of this group a couple of the key stats would look different than the others wouldn't it ?

What are the odds that 20-30++ stats are in line with this group of player ? The evidences shown are completely damning imho.

Finding a few different stats is no longer an option, because all the main ones are the same.

He could try finding account pairs that are more similar to each other then one of the 432 account pairs in my OP (27 accounts compared in pairs gives 432 pairs). Finding a group of accounts just as similar would be much better.

I am still trying to do find a single pair that similar, the smallest difference I managed to find apart from the list in my OP was 370 (squared distance between RPTR postflop stats). This is for a pair of HS crushers that are probably the same nationality and might have worked on poker for years together. I took a closer look at them and there is some stuff that they do completely different when checking other HEM stats. On my list the difference between various accounts was between 30 and 200.

Now the evidence is not just RPTR stats but also all the other stuff I have listed in my post here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=888
Not sure what he could do about this, especially the odd 90%+ stat.

Sergei could also say that he has figured out how to crush PL200 so of course he is going to be very similar to the other guys that crush PL200, just like HS human sickos Berri and Cobus are similar to each other.



EDIT:

I forgot to add the super unusual low folds to cbets and donks in various spots that are shared by Serega, Fedor, Samanta etc. No other reg plays like this. For more info read here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=608

I never accused you of colluding. I have no reason to believe you colluded, shared holecards or worked together with any of your buddies when playing on the same table.

Last edited by Schwein; 06-13-2015 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:23 PM   #906
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

@Simonsayscall: any idea why so many other russian players have such similar stats? Do you study or talk with any of the other suspected bots?



I already wrote that I have an access to specific game calculations, I can train my skills using it. My game training process doesnt include communication with anybody
I dont know who else can have an access to these calculations.



@MATT111 are you able to cash out from your Stars account right now?
Or did Stars block that option?



If you think this is a public information, you should ask Poker Stars about it



@Schwein 1. Why are the 21 RPTR postflop stats identical for those 27 accounts (432 pairs)
when there isnt any other pair of account playing PLO that would be so similar. Screenshot for some of the still active ones compared to 2 banned ones.



I have already answered to Simonsayscall on a similar question. But want to add that you, Schwein, took info from underground website, looking to the stats,
that nobody knows if it were calculated correct and analyzing group of aggresive players. So it is obvious that some stats will be similar between these
players of that group, especially if there is a certain "right" numbers, that guarantee maximum EV.

It is like take a group of people with strabismus and normal people, and ask all of them to show the middle point of 1m stick.
All normal people will point close to each other, but all people with sick vision will poke into different points, to the left and to the right of the stick..



2. What is your connection to the 26 other guys, do you know each other? Did someone provide you with the same software?

Just one guy from the list I know in personal. I dont use any software besides HM



3. Why do all the accounts from my OP list have (BB Agg/Agg)*(3bet/sqz)>0.8 when almost no other accounts have it like this?



Man, you took some formula and ask me why some group of people that you choose hit something? Are you out of your mind ?



4. Why did the redline start to fall for all of you guys at the same moment after rising steadily before?
5. Why did you guys change your BB defend so much at the same?


My game strategy is based on its decisions and my knowledge of the game. If my understanding of the game changes or the meta changes,
then my behaviour changes as well. It is you the one who draws analogies, I am just playing the cards that I get from dealer.
How I can answer you something about changes of win without showdown of other people ?



6. Why are all of you performing an aggresive (c/r or raise cbet) action on flop with the same frequency?


I am doing +EV moves. If somebody else doing it - good for him, the one who doesnt - loosing the money.


7. Will you provide the software that tells you every single decision postflop to PokerStars for review?


I dont use any illigal software while I am playing. Any questions from Poker Stars about my working place and proccess I will and ready to discuss with Poker Stars, not with u


@krmont22 When and how did you get into online poker?
Do you have any poker friends? Who are they?

I have started as a counter of cards, played on Poker Stars on play money for fun, after I won a million of play money I made a deposit of 50 $. After 1 month I won 10k, since that I stopped to count the cards and started to play poker online. Almost 15 years gone since that.
I have friends in russian community. Do you know somebody from it that it makes sense if I write the names here ?

to be continued...
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:27 PM   #907
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Those replies are so, so weak. You'd be better off saying absolutely nothing, you'd appear smarter. Dude displays no knowledge of PLO or statistics, which isn't damning in and of itself, but it's hard to look more guilty.
His explanation of why he plays the way he does and why 27 of 10,000+ accounts all have the exact same stats is that he "Adjusts to his opponents." Can you think of a weaker, more stupid explanation?

Are you seriously saying you counted cards online, or do you mean you counted in a casino and made $10k?

Why did you make a 2p2 account over two years ago but not post until this week?
Where did you learn PLO and what is your PLO background? Did you learn the game through your friends in the "russian community?"

Do you find it odd that so many in this "community" crush these games but never play tournaments, never play higher and all have similar stats that aren't like anyone else who crushes or plays at these stakes?

People in your community have been banned. You probably know them. Why do you not want to help clean up the games that you play for a living when doing so would be worth tens of thousands of dollars at a minimum to you?

Last edited by aoFrantic; 06-13-2015 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:35 PM   #908
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregaxx View Post
@Simonsayscall: any idea why so many other russian players have such similar stats? Do you study or talk with any of the other suspected bots?



I already wrote that I have an access to specific game calculations, I can train my skills using it. My game training process doesnt include communication with anybody
I dont know who else can have an access to these calculations.

Since you don't know if anybody else has access to these calculations, I think it's safe to assume that you've obtained them from somebody else.

I'm sure if you could be open and prove where you got these seemingly incredibly calculations from, you could easily clear your name.

IMO your reluctance to do so doesn't make you look very innocent.
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:37 PM   #909
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregaxx View Post
I already wrote that I have an access to specific game calculations, I can train my skills using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregaxx View Post
I dont use any software besides HM


Do you use Pokersnowie or something similar?
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:43 PM   #910
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

The sad thing is these cheaters in almost every instance aren't computer geniuses that are exploiting the system and taking millions of dollars out of the poker economy. They were just lucky enough not to get caught.

It's really hard not to get more angry that people like that took that much money out of the games I play in. ****.
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:07 PM   #911
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregaxx View Post

@Schwein 1. Why are the 21 RPTR postflop stats identical for those 27 accounts (432 pairs)
when there isnt any other pair of account playing PLO that would be so similar. Screenshot for some of the still active ones compared to 2 banned ones.



I have already answered to Simonsayscall on a similar question. But want to add that you, Schwein, took info from underground website, looking to the stats,
that nobody knows if it were calculated correct and analyzing group of aggresive players. So it is obvious that some stats will be similar between these
players of that group, especially if there is a certain "right" numbers, that guarantee maximum EV.

It is like take a group of people with strabismus and normal people, and ask all of them to show the middle point of 1m stick.
All normal people will point close to each other, but all people with sick vision will poke into different points, to the left and to the right of the stick..
The data is accurate, my associates with large DBs can confirm it. I didnt start this thread because some of those postflop stats are similar, they are all almost exactly the same.

Out of my list in OP 16/27 accounts on PokerStars are already banned and 6/6 on FTP are banned as well.

There is no such thing as right or wrong stats to beat PLO in the last 2 years. The are big winners with all kind of styles, thats why I compared 2 huge winners from 2014-15. More then one way to skin a cat.



As for your other replies those can be summarized by "I dont know why the other 26 guys do the same stuff". Fair enough. I can help you with that. The others were provided with the same software to assist postflop decisions in every possible spot. Its possible you didnt know about the others, it doesnt matter actually, but they had the same software as you did, and it was updated for all of you at the same time. If thats the case, are you mad the ring leader didnt tell you about all the others?

There is a similar case going on now about HU hyper SNGs, at least the guys over there admitted immediately that they had the same software. It was only 3 of them and not 27 and they played different on the rivers but they had admitted it right away anyway.

EDIT:

The screenshots that were provided to me were only the beginning, there is a LOT of other evidence now linking the 27 accounts together.

Last edited by Schwein; 06-13-2015 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:17 PM   #912
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

It seems pretty reasonable to me that 27 different russians who never spoke to each other all came up with the same exact strategy and frequencies independently.
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:21 PM   #913
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

@Schwein
I don't think they have only a software... right now a lot of smart guys are playing and studying a lot, at least one of them should come up with the same adjustments that BOTs did.
I mean,out of all guys playing PLO nobody is playing like this... are they stupid? Of course not, something else is going on, IMHO
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:25 PM   #914
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Its the same software AND it was changed at the same time. This is absolutely glaring evidence. Stars has to freeze the rest and start diligently searching for them.
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:52 PM   #915
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post

There is a similar case going on now about HU hyper SNGs, at least the guys over there admitted immediately that they had the same software. It was only 3 of them and not 27 and they played different on the rivers but they had admitted it right away anyway.
Is there a thread about this?
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:53 PM   #916
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

^he's talking about skier's software
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Old 06-13-2015, 06:56 PM   #917
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Ok. My bad.... i thought this was along the linea of bots in hypers. Lol

That makes much more sense. Also can we get Seragex on a joey podcast??

Also how do we know your not a troll?
Or worse a poker stars shill account??
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:00 PM   #918
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopPair2Pair View Post
Is there a thread about this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General View Post
^he's talking about skier's software
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...tware-1533249/

It was only 3 guys with similar stats and much less advanced software. Having similar stats in a 25bb deep game isnt a big deal actually. Its much easier to have similar stats for HU hypers then full stack PLO (especially river play) by few orders of magnitude.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:10 PM   #919
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregaxx View Post
@Simonsayscall: any idea why so many other russian players have such similar stats? Do you study or talk with any of the other suspected bots?



I already wrote that I have an access to specific game calculations, I can train my skills using it. My game training process doesnt include communication with anybody
I dont know who else can have an access to these calculations.

One of my good trusted friend is dealing in hundreds of thousand of $ per month with all the biggest russian affiliates.

This "access" he talks about does not exist.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:25 PM   #920
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
That what seregaxx is saying proves only that he is out of ammo in this case, he just also told he is watching videos from rio, but his english is that bad he cant write without translator here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
Those replies are so, so weak. You'd be better off saying absolutely nothing, you'd appear smarter. Dude displays no knowledge of PLO or statistics, which isn't damning in and of itself, but it's hard to look more guilty.
His explanation of why he plays the way he does and why 27 of 10,000+ accounts all have the exact same stats is that he "Adjusts to his opponents." Can you think of a weaker, more stupid explanation?
agree . seregexxx answers just make him more guilty lol.

and as people said, numbers don't lye .
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:31 PM   #921
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

@ Seregaxx

According to the orginal Table Ratings (it tracks Stars again) your most frequent opponent has been FedorZaysev.

You have logged over 2x more hands versus that account compared to your second most frequent opponent who happens to be Samantha81.

Does your high volume with FedorZaysev come from heads up hands?
How about vs. Samantha81?

As we have linked your accounts with identical post flop stats do understand why this makes me worry about the game integrity?


Last edited by freewilly12; 06-13-2015 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:41 PM   #922
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

X-Post from NL Forums

I just made this using 27 postflop stats that were available to me, it should go some way to identifying who we should look at in more depth. It pretty much clears Allian[28] of being part of this bot system although he does have a very close style but it deviates enough that I don't think he can be one.

The 27 stats I used are shown below.



A simple key:
Green - 0-200: Almost identical.
Yellow - 200-300: Very close but would likely need more investigation.
Red - 500+. Not likely to be a match but significant similarities the closer you get to 500.

Notes: Reg 1 used to coach reg 2. All 3 regs (and me) are winners in the games we play (100z, 200z, 200ring and 100ring) with slightly different strategies. I used myself as my stats are 24/20/9 with a 53 wwsf over the last 12 months showing how different these regs play to even aggressive regs like myself.

Disclaimer: Like Schwein we used the Euclidean distance metric but did not standardise our data as I'm terrible at maths and my helper had to leave. Essentially this means that a 2 point gap between XR flop and CB flop are measured as the same when in reality, a 2 point gap between 8% flop XR and 10% is much bigger than a 2 point gap between 70% cb and 72% cb. If our data was standardised, I think the results would be even more conclusive as, for example, here[for]busines had very little matches but this could be explained by his 4 point higher ftcb that threw off the data a little. I do also believe that the distance between reg 1 and 2 would also increase as they deviated much more on the lower metrics. Nontheless this data shows some clear trends and in some cases (D33xtr and got_nuts999) overwhelming evidence that they play almost identical.

Any queries I will be happy to answer. I won't release the data I used for this for obvious reasons but I can supply some of it if requested too.



Interestingly d33xtr has matches with pretty much everyone who is suspected of being a bot.

The list of regs who are no longer playing (most probably due to being banned):

- Iddqd55
- D33XTR
- Overbetpower
- Amalgamer
- Tengri_79
- here4busines
- Flusha209
- LuckyCo1n
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:01 PM   #923
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by freewilly12 View Post
@ Seregaxx

According to the orginal Table Ratings (it tracks Stars again) your most frequent opponent has been FedorZaysev.

You have logged over 2x more hands versus that account compared to your second most frequent opponent who happens to be Samantha81.

Does your high volume with FedorZaysev come from heads up hands?
How about vs. Samantha81?

As we have linked your accounts with identical post flop stats do understand why this makes me worry about the game integrity?


great find


Segraa can chat in perfect english on the tables with Pasta and others but can't form a complete sentence here on the forums?
I saw some chat where he used the word tilt perfectly but on here he says in tilt


Why did you and the other alleged accounts switch your styles in the EXACT same why at the EXACT same time without ever knowing each other or communicating?? You **** don't know account switch same time, why know would you

Last edited by ChicagoJoey; 06-13-2015 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:44 PM   #924
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

LOL what clown show this is turning into, POKERSTARS needs to fire a whole lot of people in there security & game integrity department!!! I'd love to hear Negreneau try to explain this whole mess lmao.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:57 PM   #925
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them



sry guys, do u think that there's one or more bots within these 7 players?
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