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Old 06-12-2015, 02:13 PM   #801
kelnel
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

bot can play both 6 max and HU



i had no idea about all that crap....
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:15 PM   #802
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them




only looked at that **** for 3 minutes. gonna stop quoting now. too depressing
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:24 PM   #803
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Pokerstars could probably track that guy from that graph, right? Just use their hh database to find which screenname it belongs to.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:01 PM   #804
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

sick stuff.

i think its very important for everyone who like playing online poker, that this goes to media and make most people possible know about this, its the only way to make pokerstars really care about the situation. if you work w media, has a poker site, or whatever, you should write about this and try make more people possible know about this situation. its the only way to make pokerstars fight against bots.

if nobody knows, if bots goes under radar, they are good customers to pokersites. to pokerstars, what diference makes if theres a human or a machine controling the fedor/samanhta? they play w regs, they make tables run, they pay rake . why pokerstars would care about that if they pay rake and play reg tables? if nobody notice bots, they are good for pokersites.

but if human players knows about this, then bots will be terrible, very very bad for poker sites, because people will stop playing there and gg poker site.

ps; thanks all who working on this, schein, etc , everyone , thanks .
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:02 PM   #805
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabonator View Post
Pokerstars could probably track that guy from that graph, right? Just use their hh database to find which screenname it belongs to.
Hopefully. But from reading some of the threads on that site it seems easy for them to get another bot/ bots up and running again even after being banned from the site.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:05 PM   #806
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

i dont know how, but all legit reg should try make a big pressure on pokerstars trying to get rake paid by bots, and receive huge refunds. maybe won't be possible to make this pressure...

like some people already said in this thread, we pay rake for many reasons, one of the main reasons is to have a honest, fair game.

pokerstars acting like corrupt governaments in brazil (or any corrupt people) or those idiots at FIFA . once they get caught, they say ''yes , we are working to have a fair governament, and make everything clear''. but before that, nobody says nothing....
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:11 PM   #807
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
^That's an exact copy/paste of the reply I got (from a completely different support person)

edit: In response to kelnel

edit2: AnotherMakiavelli: Chess is not played online for money since it would just be bot/computer vs bot/computer every game. AFAIK neither is Backgammon for the same reason.
I also got the exact same copypasta. Complete bull**** but whatever, f u stars
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:16 PM   #808
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by 4-Star General View Post
Why the users cannot be criminal prosecuted? Clearly I'm missing a piece of that...this could be fraud. Obv something is preventing the room to do so... what is it?
Its super hard to prosecute someone for small scale theft and cheating online, and when I say hard I mean nearly impossible.

Why do you think most theft and cheating happens online? Because there is no fear. Billions are stolen yearly in fraud online and other types of various crime, 99.9% of the people get away scott free. Its super super easy to steal peoples money, it was even easier 10 years ago.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:17 PM   #809
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by b4dger1 View Post
Janne Juutilainen (Durian) released his first part of Defending the BB in Plo part1, Oct 3rd.

So the bot-maker also has runitonce account, watches the videos and makes the changes to his bot... so anyone still thinks making these coaching videos is a good idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by apo5tol View Post
Just remembered something from last year that might or might not be relevant. Somewhere around October `14 I was invited to a Russian skype group by Drochba, a regular that has since then dropped down a Lot in volume, at least as far as I can tell. I didnt stay in this group for long but I remember Samantha was one of the guys in it.

Looking really suspicious to me now
absurd
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:20 PM   #810
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
I am going to have Sam Ganzfried on a podcast . He is the guy behind the Claudico bot. Going to discuss the PLO botting situation among other things. I'm sure he will have some unique insight into things. If anyone can give me some technical questions that will be GTO to ask let me know
I have a couple:

1) Does it seem likely these particular bot-creators are sophisticated enough to create bots that use soft-collusion? (ie. communicating NF blockers, set blockers on lockdown boards)

2) How difficult would this be?
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:25 PM   #811
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them



no way he isnt one
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:34 PM   #812
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
Its super hard to prosecute someone for small scale theft and cheating online, and when I say hard I mean nearly impossible.

Why do you think most theft and cheating happens online? Because there is no fear. Billions are stolen yearly in fraud online and other types of various crime, 99.9% of the people get away scott free. Its super super easy to steal peoples money, it was even easier 10 years ago.
Ty for your reply.
Well when you are sign up with a room you have to validate your account sending your own documents. While I do understand every cheater would user a friend name, the friend could go to jail and should cause some fear...
dunno maybe I'm a bit naive
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:40 PM   #813
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them










The noname stat will be the same with every bot. 35%+ in BB (last one) (pm me to know the stat)
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:43 PM   #814
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by straate1 View Post
I have a couple:

1) Does it seem likely these particular bot-creators are sophisticated enough to create bots that use soft-collusion? (ie. communicating NF blockers, set blockers on lockdown boards)

2) How difficult would this be?
If I had to build a bot from scratch having 2 bots communicate with each other would be the least time (hard) thing that I'd think of, and I'm no where near skilled as these guys.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:46 PM   #815
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

banned bot:


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Old 06-12-2015, 03:47 PM   #816
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

The worse thing imo about this whole situation is that there is virtually no way for pokerstars to win this battle. Sure they will ban a bot here and there but it's not so hard to buy ids from certain countries and each iteration of a given bot is going to look more and more human.

The only way I can think of is if pokerstars asked each and every player to have a cam connected at all times that they could access randomly and even then if the bot is really +ev how hard would it be to play someone to stay in from of a screen.

Poker as we know it is probably doomed just like chess and backgammon are.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:49 PM   #817
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them




an other massive winner with the same stats
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:54 PM   #818
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I think the best way to catch bots is to hire some elite bot programmer to reveal his techniques.

Pokerstars so far (during years) have shown enormous neglicence in most cheating scandals , and I insist their refunds amounts are such a big joke after all the rake everyone of us pay.

Im mad tilt

Ps: can ps ban me for continuos trolling via email ?
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:55 PM   #819
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them




compared with RIO coach and a good regular(on a bad small losing sample)




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Old 06-12-2015, 03:56 PM   #820
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Mx210 , instead of spamming screennames here , just send info to pokerstars and make 1 post with all the info you have.

Thats the best way to keep things clear, thanks.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:10 PM   #821
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Willy and another person helping me on this case have checked all the PL100+ hands from 1 May 2015 onwards. I can conclude that all the bots from this ring on PL100 and up are already discovered. Any player that isnt on this list is innocent.

I have updated my list, 11 names with a NO written in red next to them were still active as of 1 June 2015. The blacked out name got discovered after PokerStars made their public statement and I started sending all the names directly to them instead of making them public.



Added another column to the list, its profit with rakeback, estimated at 50% average.

The botring played an estimated 17.8M hands, made 2.82M with rakeback and the damage done to legit players is at least 4.16M. Once again those estimates are lowballed because RPTR misses some normal hands and alot of zoom hands, the rakeback estimates are rather conservative as well.

If any news website would like to run an article on this then those are the numbers to quote.

Last edited by Schwein; 06-12-2015 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:15 PM   #822
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by viking1 View Post
I do not believe they are bots. Pokerstars has the best antibot software of all the pokersites. They would have picked up this a long time ago if they were real bots using automatic scripts.

You are in a complete minority of 1!! You know nothing about how complex and deceitful these bots can be. How do you know that pokerstars has the best bot detection of all sites when pokerstars can not reveal how they can detect bots or the bots would get advanced warnings.

You need to read all the posts here from a lot of different professional backgrounds including programmers, mathematicians and statisticians of which they are posting facts that point to bots and facts at every angle so the case that bots do exist is not swept under the carpet. There are masses of bot networks and some invitation only sites can sell you stats and give you places to buy bots which is ludicrous with PTR from Russia being useful with its stats from Schwein to analyse data that correlates to a large scale bot ring.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:30 PM   #823
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

None of them is playing right now at 1/2. This is really unusual so I think some accounts have been frozen.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:30 PM   #824
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Oink View Post
I have seen TotalSuccess (one of the banned PLO100 accounts/bots) do that min bet thing as well. It was one of the things we posted in our original post in SSPLO BBV thread.

Basically Totalsucces minbets/minraises 100% at one table while playing normal at 2-3 other tables I was with him at. He did it for about 20-30 minutes.

Looked an awful lot like a bug in a bot program. In my 4 years of PLo I have never seen any reg do a thing like that. But aparently 4Somniare has had the same bug

Hands where TotalSuccess minbets/minraises 100%
This happens to me quite a bit with HEM1+TNinja fwiw. ie I will have tninja set up to bet 40% of the pot or w/e, and it just bets minimum. It would never happen to me multiple times in the same hand though, and I would almost always double check in postflop spots.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:35 PM   #825
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I've given pokerstars the chance to deal with this bot ring and to do the right thing including substantial compensation to all affected.
I'm getting the feeling that if Schwein wants the media mags to run this then he may have run in to a brick wall.

I am on very good terms and have a load of investigative journalist friends for which I've uncovered multi types of fraud so far nothing to do with poker.

I can with no trouble get this story Put in the the British "Mail on Sunday" "the daily Mail" any of Lord rothermeres other 4 national papers including the daily mail, the Metro, the observer and I expect the interest would be immense and Lord Rothermere owns a very large stake in ITV where my good friend is the deputy editor for ITN news and ITV news in general.

Pokerstars have been written too and I accept it will take a couple more days but if these suspected bots who ARE still playing as of now are not suspended and pokerstars does nothing about this then I will liaise with Scwein et Al to get this full national media coverage across the UK which will have a huge media knock on effect.

So do PM me if you think are being fobbed of Schwein or oink or Richas then it's the national newspaper arena and have this all in by next Sunday run by ITV and several national newspapers.

So give pokerstars the few days they need to evaluate this with a lengthy answer and the correct amount of compensation to all affected players whether the bots clean their accounts out or not.

Pm me and I can give you my professional details etc plus contacts and I hope pokerstars closes the suspect accounts now until the investigation is over.
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