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Old 06-11-2015, 09:39 PM   #751
TrollAccount
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oink View Post
@ Straate1

No need for apologizing. I was merely confirming that your observations are in line with the banned accounts.

BTW can someone with Russian PTR access comfirm, that Emper0r92 hasnt played since Tuesday? According to regular PTR he hasnt played since Tuesday the 9th, but they dont track zoom. According to the screendump in OP, Emper0r92 pretty much never misses action on Wednesdays and Thursdays (fingers crossed that stars aint done banning accounts)
confirmed, no hands on rptr since then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnykr View Post
Eperor never played zoom this year at all, i think.
at least at rptr there isn't even one hand from him playing zoom! he just played ALWAYS plo50-200 - no other games, stakes at all.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:03 PM   #752
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Eventually Stars didn't and doesn't take more action against this sophisticated botting, for the same reason not every airplane carries parachutes for every passenger in case of an emergency: money. They made a risk calculation and concluded that the costs of employing a lot of people to fight this stuff, is higher than the loss they suffer from money taken out of games/bad PR.

Now I really hope this specific situation gets solved, but please, everyone, don't get your hopes up. When your plane goes down, there's not a parachute present. Even though there could very easily have been one.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:05 PM   #753
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Jonnykr View Post
Eperor never played zoom this year at all, i think.

Played 500k hands myself and never seen him there. Sry if my Info is wrong.
ya I don't have any hands with him at 200z or 500z

still pretty annoyed at everything. again id like to thank you guys for all your hard work, very much appreciated and hoping stars can do something good and give us a decent refund

****in bots
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Old 06-12-2015, 01:58 AM   #754
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Ivan, a parachute wouldn't help anyone in the vast majority of plane crashes. It's just a bad analogy.
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:31 AM   #755
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
Joey contacted me that all the botters must have made a major software update at the same time last year. The redline after steadily growing for all of them started to fall for all of them. I am not exactly sure what they changed, the postflop stats remained exactly the same. I have managed to discover that the play from BB was changed for all of them, they started to defend way, way wider. I am attaching screenshots for the alias as well as Fedor and Samanta, cant really tell who provided me those and those arent as good as I would like them to be because of the medium sample size.







There could be something else. Perhaps we could ask Fedor. He was playing a lot of tables on PokerStars today, maybe he could share a few things with us.

EDIT: Thank you for your insight straate, it was very valuable.

Put these numbers in a chart form, and any idiot could tell that those three are the same bot playing.
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:36 AM   #756
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
I am happy my investigation GTO lead to something as I spent far too many hours looking at every single account on RPTR


You might notice that the the time frame they made this change was the same time as something very relevant was released



Here are graphs for reference


http://gyazo.com/3c6e968bfef3fd6f6ecb71a5dfe0291a
http://gyazo.com/a7d65876dd5fa4acf2f082d55509040f
http://gyazo.com/d6e15699ad141e16dd9c0a71aa68822c
http://gyazo.com/0876e621be96f3653fb0534a71928972
http://gyazo.com/39b396343e9520f86263aacdb92f3f26
http://gyazo.com/6ce9d8b1e6c62fe0bd786fddf0d29e82
http://gyazo.com/50fc2d18fdc0ccc848dea8a523cd0e3a

You can almost pinpoint the exact moment when they start to run extremely lucky in the all-ins, especially on the last four charts. If dates of those points match, you can know the actual date when they started sharing hole cards.

What was released in October 2014?
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:57 AM   #757
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Great graphs JI1
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:57 AM   #758
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by straate1 View Post
Hi Guys,
Pokerstars refused to take any immediate action and insisted they would look into it. Three weeks later they got back to me stating the players didn't know each other, were 600km apart, both play high volume, and their statistics were similar but not the same. They said that my reasoning would apply to most regulars. Again, Pokerstars refused to take any action.
Well, obviously, the stats are never going to be exactly the same. So, it's obviously a matter of 'how close are they'.

And the PokerStars representative had two options, A - close enough and more work and B - not close enough and no more work for him. And he obviously chose the option B.

And also, now we see that some stats are not only the same, but also change (drastically) at the same moment in time.

Perhaps somebody know a way to represent the probability of all those stats matching with a single number?

Last edited by brbrbrbr; 06-12-2015 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:08 AM   #759
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Can stars freeze cashouts while letting the accounts play? Has that ever happened? Im wondering because all those accounts are still playing and i would be sick in my stomach if stars were approving cashouts as we speak. Freezing cashouts pending investigation seems like the right thing to do. You can let them playing as if they win $ but are found guilty the money will be refunded anyway. In the case they are legit grinders, well you let them with the opportunity to play. So for once, it some kind of freeroll for us. We cant lose anymore if they are found guilty, but we can still win.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:16 AM   #760
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Wow straate, thanks for your input. That sounds like some serious neglect by stars there...

Also a good find on these graphs Joey, it sure does suggest card sharing from that point onwards...
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:49 AM   #761
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by straate1 View Post
At some point during this I also noticed Fedor and Samantha completely ceased playing with each other. One would play zoom and the other would play full ring. I thought this was pretty suspicious because they had played together nearly everyday at the same tables up until this point. Why would they suddenly change everything?
Stars may have felt they did not have enough proof to ban but that putting a ban on them sitting at the same table was appropriate. Players from the same address can even ask for such a block so that Stars don't note the address/IP and conclude they are colluding.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:11 AM   #762
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh....php?t=1538981

FYI
Stars will change the 3rd party software policy ( based on this story as well? Tldr)
Dont know the solution would be enough in a long term.

*Anyway lol scripting is still not prohibited.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:18 AM   #763
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Disgusting how so many of the banned accounts were reported way back and stars is just incompetent as **** wrt dealing with them

asking for help from someone with only rptr and hem2, fkn ridiculous. "industry leader in security" my ass
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:32 AM   #764
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

PokerStars Security and Game Integrity department really can't be this stupid and incompetent can they? Stars has more data and money than everyone to monitor and detect bots & cheating yet they let this go on for over 1yr, right now I picture a bunch of roided out meat heads at Stars Security not even knowing how to turn on a computer.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:34 AM   #765
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I think one of the lessons is very clear:
If you ever encounter something dodgy on PokerStars just make a thread about it! It seems that emailing them does not do the job.
And please forget the phrase "accusing innocent people", poker is getting ridiculously shady lately and it seems that only publicity can solve most of those problems!
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:37 AM   #766
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by joeri View Post
Wow straate, thanks for your input. That sounds like some serious neglect by stars there...

.
Srsly. Time to contact regulators.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:43 AM   #767
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by MATT111 View Post
Srsly. Time to contact regulators.
We should also contact them because of the amount that has been refunded.

I donīt get why stars is allowed to take away such high fees from the players and is not responsible for the financial damage those cheaters do to other players.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:50 AM   #768
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by SoMarginal View Post
I emailed stars about 1 year ago with these suspected accounts in NL (d33xtr, here4busines, iddqd55) and was ignored. Not to sound conspiracy oriented but maybe someone up top knew what was going on and was getting kickbacks? Seems overly incompetent in general.
he was originally reported to poker stars in September 2012 along with six other accounts. 5 of them were banned. one of the two who continued to play stopped playing when I made a post about the scripting issue and how poker stars inability to stop it was the beginning of the end of online poker because they are openly admitting they cannot stop the bots. i referenced that account in the post. This same account I had poker stars Steve assure me in a pm exchange was not a bot because of the thorough investigation that the game integrity department completed.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:57 AM   #769
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Janne Juutilainen (Durian) released his first part of Defending the BB in Plo part1, Oct 3rd.

So the bot-maker also has runitonce account, watches the videos and makes the changes to his bot... so anyone still thinks making these coaching videos is a good idea?
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:01 AM   #770
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Just remembered something from last year that might or might not be relevant. Somewhere around October `14 I was invited to a Russian skype group by Drochba, a regular that has since then dropped down a Lot in volume, at least as far as I can tell. I didnt stay in this group for long but I remember Samantha was one of the guys in it.

Looking really suspicious to me now
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:26 AM   #771
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

cashed out my stars roll. mostly not because of the botting incidences going on tbh, but bc of stars absurdly way to handle this situation.

osiasgriffin

edit: i really loved stars, software, promptly cashout, always games running etc... still best site for me by far, but i guess itīs time to take a break now. prob foolish to expect some kind of integrity in a business like online poker

Last edited by sauhund; 06-12-2015 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:57 AM   #772
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Ok my wife has written to pokerstars on my behalf and I got a fairly honest reply so far.

It was a very detailed response from an integrity manager from pokerstars. They are still investigating all that is going on and they will update my wife ASAP.

As pokerstars Steve said give it 10 days and give pokerstars more time to evaluate what exactly is going on with these bots.

One thing that would be a huge indicator of collusion is for example Sergeaxx & fedorsayev and how many times considering how many tables they always sat together at went all-in against each other? This compared to the same amount of all-ins on other opponents. You could easily correlate that so far 27 suspected bots have been found by Schwein. What is the all-in statistics for all these suspected bots against each other whether or not they are from the same country. You can have one bot in the UK talking to one bot in Russia for example to try to hide collusion and they can still collude with seeing each other's cards in real time. The all-ins against each other I suspect is extremely low when blind stealing or two players bullying one player out of a pot. So hero raises to say $50 to be pot betted by bot one and bot 2 making hero think "oh shi-t I'll fold. But hero folding after the flop is another $50 for Team Bot.
I won't publish the email my wife received while pokerstars investigate their own way. My wife will be getting updates as I will use my mathematical & statistical skills to help her write to stars on her account as she is the one who is affected to the tune of $1000's

So bear with me on this one and as it's Friday I'm still at work.

Best wishes to all and lets eliminate any kind of cheating once and for all.
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:14 AM   #773
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Well it's the barest I've seen PLO $1/2 and $2/4 in a very long time where Seargeaxx is still playing but in total only 4 tables are operating with what looks like a player boycott because one of the very worst suspected bots is still playing $1/2 PLO on all 3 tables and that's the lowest action I've seen in a very long time playing against a Dutch poker pro LOve2playu. Mr Seargeaxx alledged bot must have other ammunition up if sleeve if he's beating other well known pros unless the real person behind this account is a pro using his skills in bot programming.

We will wait and see.
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:30 AM   #774
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

No worries. These guys are watching our back

https://youtu.be/d5upxYyeoQ8
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:00 AM   #775
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Seargeaxx is sitting on 3 tables at $1/2 and there have been sit outs. He has 4.5 buy ins at one table and nearly 3 buy ins stack at the other whilst sitting on his own at another and sitting with $200 at the next.

This will destroy poker if this guy is still allowed to carry on as no one wants to play him and they sit out and leave when he turns up and only a few recs I don't know are donating cash to him apart from lOve2play you being a pro from the Netherlands.

The PLO table desertion is all the way down in stakes too.

It's like a ghost town while we all wait for a resolution no one is playing these stakes till this alleged bot situation is dealt with and bots banned and decent compensation from a company who recently went on the Nasdaq stock market and shares doubled in price before going public and then doubled again when on the Nasdaq meaning the $5B AMAYA paid to buy pokerstars for $5B is now worth between $15-$20B
Due to first quarterly net profits of $283m and rising quarter by quarter by expecting that a profit by the end of the financial year could reach $1.5B net for a company they paid what seemed at the time a lot of money for priced at $5B. This is why Amayas shares went through the roof due to negative inflation in a few European countries making AMAYA shares a very good investment if you bought the shares upon them coming on to the Nasdaq from the start.

Well they have mentioned compensation payouts to my wife in an email My wife received and based on play and many other factors. She did state the middle hundreds upwards is a starting point as losing thousands is not a joke to her when doing well at the Lower stakes to be busted every time at $1/2 and above on moving up. She does not play differently than how she beats the lower stakes and I've analysed her stats and her all-ins with these bots and post flop when she's a 80 favourite she only wins 55% percent of the time? Massive mathematical difference of a deviation of 25% below norm.

Ok it's wait and see time.

Best wishes all and I must get back to work while wife degens more cash Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them.
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