Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-11-2015, 12:11 PM   #701
Dandan160808
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 135
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

So we have these suspect accounts still operating and a flimsy answer as to "we might change some rules" why just keep it in the forums?

The recreational players are throwing thousands at these bot fraudsters without realising that a small but big enough kick up the butt has prompted an answer from pokerstars Steve. What action did they take to tackle attacks on high stakes regs at past EPTs? Well Lee Jones didn't give a **** until jeans89 and ignat 'O' HumanO took to 2 plus 2.

Poker is a game of skill being overtaken online by programmers, bots and allowed semi automated bots plus seat scripting which targets the recreational fish.

We are not playing the game we love anymore as when we see the cards turn over on the river you can hear yourself saying yep villain just needs an 8 to win and boom an 8 appears.

So we have 10 days of giving ideas and good discussion which is good but if zero happens then I know more than enough British national journalists that would run with this story due to the different types of fraud that seem to have been ignored for a very long time. Once in the mainstream press then the gambling commission will have no choice but to act.

This serious topic needs all to discuss this and not just those who feel losing their decision making tools is going to hurt them as others have been destroyed by gambling addictions chasing a dream they can't win with the fraud going on in online poker.
Dandan160808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:17 PM   #702
JJTheFish
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I would be shocked if d33xtr was a pure bot. But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he was using some software to 'aid' his game. Ive played quite abit with d33xtr, I had more meta game going with him, then i did vast majority of regs at 100z NL. He did seams to have the same kind of stats/ sizings alot of the accounts accused of cheating had.

I have only glanced over this thread so far,( will read the rest soon) im not sure exactly what things you are using to detect bots, but will read and find out.

I Have seen quite a few strange things from qwerpassword the regular frequency's and sizings of the others accused, as well as missing quite a few super easy VBs ( any of you guys have decent samples on your DB involving him and you filter for river spots, you will see what i mean).

I havnt reviewed my hands with allian, but intend to. he has some the suspicious sizing's and frequency's. why do you believe he is not a cheater/bot?

Thank you for the work you are doing on this Schwein
JJTheFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:20 PM   #703
omnishakira
High Troller
 
omnishakira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BBV Alpha Male
Posts: 9,637
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
cant you just exploit this by cbetting less?
omnishakira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:30 PM   #704
alexo18
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,408
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnishakira View Post
cant you just exploit this by cbetting less?
No strat here plz, there r better ways to exploit this.

I sincerely hate having payed 80k (after deducting rakeback) last year and still gotten like 3 times 22usd as refund. Its a big ***** joke.
alexo18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:33 PM   #705
NeedB4Greed
banned
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 149
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by apo5tol View Post
NeedB4Greed, I hate to sound impolite, but how about you go f yourself you nationalistic piece of biological waste.

Wtf does nationality have to do with being a scumbag? There are a lot of perfectly legitimate Eastern European players, while at the same time there are dare I say "human beings" such as you any country would be ashamed of having.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanko33 View Post
You should be banned from everything for this!!!
Sorry guys I know where you are coming from. But the cheats have proven to be Russian and Chinese and I have seen their blatant cheating ads.

I apologize to anybody who has taken offense from my stereotyping. I have several eastern euro friends who are more honest and hardworking than my western friends. I also know and play against many Russian poker players who are extremely talented and need no help from cheats to beat the game.

Simple fact is that these cheating sites aren't run by Germans, Canadians, Brits, Australians or ex-pats in Mexico or Thailand. The cheating enterprise is run almost exclusively by eastern euros due to the lack of regulation, oversight and consequence in their home nations.
NeedB4Greed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:39 PM   #706
poorme
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 506
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirin View Post
I feel like this is a situation in which more publicity is needed - the risk of scaring off some players now is not as great as the risk of this stuff going on and continuing to fly under the radar, gradually killing the games.

I'm not sure why stars isn't taking this more seriously already, but it seems clear that they don't prioritise preventing botting or possibly hole card sharing as much as honest players would like them to, and so publicity seems like the only thing that might change that.

If they haven't been bothered up till now then a few regs complaining on twoplustwo won't change anything, so something else needs to happen. Mainstream coverage of this issue seems like the best option.

I also agree with whoever said that all players have the right to know about this, not just people who read twoplustwo.

+1
poorme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:41 PM   #707
Dandan160808
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 135
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

All algorithms can be changed. But the Programmes used learn a million times quicker and hand by hand adding these cards stats to their data sets and winning even more.

We need to wait for several types of stats as statistics can be manipulated in favour or against, hence the quote "statistics statistics & more lies" used mainly by politicians!

I spent 9 years after graduating working with a very large dept of multinational statisticians and mathematicians at a place called rothamsted experimental station and a guy called Frank Yates RIP started the various variance equations we use today. So I worked with the very best mathematicians and statisticians and programmers in the world and I'm asking two ex colleagues what they make of the statistics. I can just look at some of the stats and say "well two identical graphs etc etc like. Fedorsayev and sergeaxx and same playing hours. Identical in nearly every way.

Schwein and Richas who's the regulator expert I hope can use all our input and stop all the collusion and bots once and for all.
Dandan160808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 12:45 PM   #708
poorme
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 506
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzzzzzzz View Post
The level of complacency with which stars has been dealing with so many such issues is appalling.

Hackers getting access to accounts some time back , the recent automated software usage , now this bot ring .

To all the professional grinder fan boys of poker stars who think stars is some pinnacle of honesty and integrity -

It is pretty clear and evident by now what kind of an approach stars has towards such concerns. Heck , people had warned stars about some of these players almost a **** year back !! You really think if they were genuinely concerned it would take them a year to stop these guys with complete hhs available on them . People getting robbed of 1000s of dollars and getting 40 dollar refunds . Really !

What everyone needs to understand is that stars is a business. Maximization of profit is there only and ultimate goal. All their decision will be based just on numbers. The recent raise in rake , spin n gos coming in , talks of having more casino type games and other sorts of gambling options . All this should tell you that they dont give a **** about Online poker. They just care about the $$$$$$ . So letting suspicious players carry on for over an year generating them over 2 million in rake as long as it doesnt blow up in the media was a very plus ev decision from there point of view.

I am actually very glad this happened , because this should be the beginning of the end for stars . Happened with ub , happened with ftp , will happen with stars too . I hope soon enough though.

As of today the online poker scene is as fkd up as it can be. With stars almost monopolizing the market , they can pretty much do whatever they want to . Its high time we the consumers did something about it .

Even if stars offers full compensation of money lost by players and the rake generated by them too , it is still not enough . Something like this should never ever have happened . Specially after repeated number of people warning them over an year back. If it wasnt for schwien they would have let this continue for god knows how much longer. I for sure dont want to play on such a site.

Hope this is the beginning of a new era - lower rake , no bots , no automated software .


very well said. its all about the money. risk vs reward.until it really blows up into a huge scandal or becomes close to doing so i from there viewpoint the rake was too much to throw away. greed will get them everytime. always does
poorme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 01:00 PM   #709
.isolated
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
.isolated's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Better, but not perfect.
Posts: 18,894
Lightbulb Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzzzzzzz View Post
I am actually very glad this happened , because this should be the beginning of the end for stars . Happened with ub , happened with ftp , will happen with stars too . I hope soon enough though.
UB and FTP happened because they ran out of money. This is far from the beginning of the end for Stars. If there were alternatives, you may be right. Right now, most people who even play in those games will suck it up and try to grind a living. I do agree with the rest of your post but I think it's important to distinguish that this isn't the same company ownership it was a year and a half ago. They have different interest and can go after them if they so choose.
.isolated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 01:40 PM   #710
Entusiowe_ucho
newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 45
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

But tell me: why always russians?
Entusiowe_ucho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 01:41 PM   #711
roquefort
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 61
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
gantenbein29 is 100% not a bot, I know who he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TianYuan View Post
Hehe yeah, I dont know him, but if he's a bot, the bot maker did a good job implementing a very realistic chat tilt : ))) (before he got chat banned)

*****

Hope it turns out to be false... Or well, I mean, they are all winning players so I guess it would be nicer if they disappeared but I still want them to be innocent ;[
Been alerted to this kinda late, sorry for responding to something that's page 1/8, but:
Have never been chat banned in my life. Also - not a bot. Also - not a winning player : D
roquefort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 01:43 PM   #712
Tornano
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Are u able to provide a list of all cheaters including the dmg they did to other players per hand (i think (winnings+ attributed rake)/avg number of player in the hand is a good measure).

This would make it possible to calculate the dmg taken from them?
Tornano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 01:53 PM   #713
roquefort
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 61
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Don't know if relevant, but I got a small refund from PS three weeks ago. Could be connected to this?..
roquefort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:01 PM   #714
ArtyMcFly
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArtyMcFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Enchantment Under the Sea
Posts: 11,950
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwein View Post
PokerStars Game Integrity was getting reports on those botters as early as October 2014.
I very nearly threw up when I read that.

Your work (and that of the other players who raised suspicions) is greatly appreciated.
ArtyMcFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:06 PM   #715
Tornano
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Yes, me too.

But i expect the dmg they did to other players something like that:

(winnings + rake attributed) / avg number of opponents in the hands = ~ 30 / 4 = ~7,5bb/100

This means the dmg should be something like 15.000 x 7,5bb/100 = 1125 bb (just an example i think many grinders played many more hands vs them)
Tornano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:15 PM   #716
Tornano
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
I very nearly threw up when I read that.

Your work (and that of the other players who raised suspicions) is greatly appreciated.
For example RichardLionH had that insane combination of wwsf, wtsd and wsd untill april 2014 of even earlier.
Tornano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:24 PM   #717
insyder19
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
insyder19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,086
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

NeedB4Greed,

then what about the Germans, who out of sudden crush all the SuperHighroller and Mixed games? And before that I do think the strongest players were all Americans.

But to me, Fin are the real problem, they are taking all our money for years now!
insyder19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:29 PM   #718
MX210
banned
 
MX210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19 View Post
NeedB4Greed,

then what about the Germans, who out of sudden crush all the SuperHighroller and Mixed games? And before that I do think the strongest players were all Americans.

But to me, Fin are the real problem, they are taking all our money for years now!
post like this by "respected" members are why the sites do not care about banning bots. Always have someone to back them up and make anyone theorizing anything look foolish.
MX210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:31 PM   #719
jas
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 210
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I think it's suspicious that none of the suspected bots have come out and defended themselves
jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:33 PM   #720
GERB1111
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 70
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Hey guys,

Is this only plo100 and above?, or is plo10-plo50 affected and if not why not?

Thanks

Accs from Kazakhstan have become increasingly more active on plo10 and plo25 last few months and all seem to very aggro postflop.
GERB1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:38 PM   #721
Callson
journeyman
 
Callson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 305
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Pokerstars has just announced rule changes regarding 3rd party software. Iam pretty sure, this decision is connected to the bot ring

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anges-1538981/
Callson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 02:47 PM   #722
Husker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Husker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Holsten's Diner
Posts: 11,726
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Callson View Post
Pokerstars has just announced rule changes regarding 3rd party software. Iam pretty sure, this decision is connected to the bot ring

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anges-1538981/
No, it appears this is connected to the discussion about the software a couple of people are using for jackpot sng's rather than this bot ring.
Husker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 03:10 PM   #723
kingc11
journeyman
 
kingc11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: grinding4life
Posts: 333
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by GERB1111 View Post
Hey guys,

Is this only plo100 and above?, or is plo10-plo50 affected and if not why not?

Thanks

Accs from Kazakhstan have become increasingly more active on plo10 and plo25 last few months and all seem to very aggro postflop.
I'd definitely be concerned about it. I dont know how far down it stakes has been checked but it seems very possible they go all the way down.
kingc11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 03:18 PM   #724
JJTheFish
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I think it could be a good idea to start a skype group for this. We are just giving them more info, having this chat out in the open
JJTheFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 03:24 PM   #725
Schwein
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Numbers dont lie
Posts: 115
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I gave some tips to freewilly12 and he has programmed a custom made stat in Notecaddy. After running it on my DB I got 10 positives and 1 false positive, no new names.

Willy got 10 positives and 1 false positive in his DB.

I have searched every account that has played at least 1K hands in my DB and got only one false positive while getting all the cheaters right.

So if those guys open a new account they should be flagged and caught within 24 hours.

Last edited by Schwein; 06-11-2015 at 03:47 PM.
Schwein is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online