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Old 06-10-2015, 09:16 PM   #651
jas
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

The article says the bot ring profited $1.5 million

With rakeback it's significantly more
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:06 PM   #652
Dandan160808
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Yes add another million to that at least.
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:19 PM   #653
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

The problem with this is that the bot programmers are basically freerolling if there are no criminal charges against them, as they only lose whats in their stars account and the regs get reimbursed 5cents on the dollar they lost. In order to catch these guys you need large samples, and by the time said samples are achieved they can easily cashout and leave a small % in their account so they can continually repeat this process with little to no financial loss. Stars needs to get better at actively finding bots or its gg for online poker. Also this just shows how important rptr is to online poker, as if we didnt have that site there would be 0 way of finding these bots and they could have taken a lot more from the community.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:27 PM   #654
Pastafiore
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

still saying this sherlocks should read this thread before posting anything. not pointing on one only.

and regs should also swallow their pride for that long this case does end. im sure most of them are thinking verymuch thatkind of things they are afraid to say here or anywhere because they are afraid for their "ego". cant be too careful/paranoid in this kind of case and that's a fact.

Last edited by Pastafiore; 06-10-2015 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:31 PM   #655
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by sebkrol18 View Post
Yeah, EV is showed for every hands with bot but not for alli-ns vs bot that makes a difference

I doubt if there is a way to filter for all-ins vs bots only, and then check how we run vs them
i just filter for where i lose 30bbs or more vs a bot to get a good idea of allin ev vs them
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:45 PM   #656
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Jajajaja View Post
The problem with this is that the bot programmers are basically freerolling if there are no criminal charges against them, as they only lose whats in their stars account and the regs get reimbursed 5cents on the dollar they lost. In order to catch these guys you need large samples, and by the time said samples are achieved they can easily cashout and leave a small % in their account so they can continually repeat this process with little to no financial loss. Stars needs to get better at actively finding bots or its gg for online poker. Also this just shows how important rptr is to online poker, as if we didnt have that site there would be 0 way of finding these bots and they could have taken a lot more from the community.
Meh, they just need to monitor new accounts more closely. Literally anybody i can think of who plays for a living has a stars account.
Now if somebody opens new account and starts at 200zoom, puts in 100k hands/m and beating it 5bb+ something has to be v wrong - almost always
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:13 AM   #657
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Meh, they just need to monitor new accounts more closely. Literally anybody i can think of who plays for a living has a stars account.
Now if somebody opens new account and starts at 200zoom, puts in 100k hands/m and beating it 5bb+ something has to be v wrong - almost always
First real poast of the year?
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:20 AM   #658
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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tehFirst real poast of the year?
fixed
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:36 AM   #659
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by kutty2 View Post
Just my 2c:

I think Pokerstars should absolutely figure out some sort of compensation to pay out the regulars totaling everything it seems they raked from the botters when the dust has been settled.

If these figures turn out to be accurate, then these botters have had a major detrimental impact on the bank accounts and possible mental and emotional bank accounts of tons of low-mid stakes regs who have been working to make an honest living on this site. It's quite a shame, and the least Pokerstars could do would be to stand behind their product and figure out a way to re-distribute the rake they profited from not catching these bots in time. It's a little something called integrity.
Highlighted text is the main reason why PokerStars will have interest to avoid banning those guys in case they really cheating (which is not proved yet officially so they are not cheaters but suspected accounts)
Its like everywhere on the planet, its better for them to avoid such huge resonance by doing smth else than banning those account because otherwise they will have to pay alot of money + they loose much more than that (trust, new customers... you name it)
I'am not a conspiracy theorist but this is the way business works nowadays and that why I only play PLO offline at casinos and private cash games places
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:02 AM   #660
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by yoyoplo View Post
Probably better to go under the radar from a regs perspective IF all botters(especially fedor) gets banned.
And btw its probably possible to have the 5200$ ticket transered into just cash with a trick btw.
Probably more than we can expect but personally I don't think that's good enough. After all this has been going on for quite some time and PS sure has better ways than us players to detect this type of thing. Yet nothing happened. I expect to be compensated this time. I'd also be happy if they took the effort to press charges against those guys. There has to be a way.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:34 AM   #661
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:34 AM   #662
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Do you guys actually lose vs the bots? When I check the VsPlayer tab I am up a lot vs them. Maybe they're just too good vs weaker players or this could just be positive variance
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:36 AM   #663
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

also i hope i don't have to return money won from bots lol
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:37 AM   #664
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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do you guys think this issue should get more media publicity/coverage or should it go under the radar?
i think more media coverage is exactly what none of us wants atm. it just gives regulators reasons to fight and ban online poker being unsafe for customers and it scares away potential recreational players.

furthermore i think people want to make it public to put more pressure on stars for bigger refunds. i agree with that idea to some extent but why not letting stars do their work, wait for the refunds and if the community is not happy with the refunds then put pressure on? Gambling comissions are first addresses here btw.

It just does not help anyone of us atm to go by "hey all media, watch out, our games are rigged". it would be just stupid and it hurts the most affected players (regulars that already donated kk$ to the bots) in the longer run
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:47 AM   #665
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Media coverage is a double-edged sword in this situation.
On one side Amaya is a public company and bots are a huge threat to their business. Media coverage will probably make them work harder to prevent similar situations in the future. On the other side this type of coverage can make a ton of potential/existing clients to stop playing online poker completely.

Last edited by GotBluffing; 06-11-2015 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:07 AM   #666
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by TimStone View Post
Meh, they just need to monitor new accounts more closely. Literally anybody i can think of who plays for a living has a stars account.
Now if somebody opens new account and starts at 200zoom, puts in 100k hands/m and beating it 5bb+ something has to be v wrong - almost always
Why only new accounts? It seems plausible that some of the accused accounts has been real in the past. A breakeven or a slightly losing (ex)pro should be ideal target for bot ring to hire. The player gets his share for running his own account, botring gets an account with legit history. Win-win.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:14 AM   #667
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by GotBluffing View Post
Media coverage is a double-edged sword in this situation.
On one side Amaya is a public company and bots are a huge threat to their business. Media coverage will probably make them work harder to prevent similar situations in the future. On the other side this type of coverage can make a ton of potential/existing clients to stop playing online poker completely.
Others may already have reduced their schedule or even completely stopped, until they see something happening. (Me for example). S***y bots are still being sold. I assume stars doesn't detect them. Rake gets collected....

Last edited by AnotherMakiavelli; 06-11-2015 at 05:23 AM. Reason: obfuscate company name
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:16 AM   #668
Jeff W
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by GotBluffing View Post
Media coverage is a double-edged sword in this situation.
On one side Amaya is a public company and bots are a huge threat to their business. Media coverage will probably make them work harder to prevent similar situations in the future. On the other side this type of coverage can make a ton of potential/existing clients to stop playing online poker completely.
Well, unfortunately Amaya's failure here is so egregious that we need to put pressure on them at the cost of bad publicity. If they don't improve their bot/collusion detection there isn't going to be any business left to protect down the road.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:17 AM   #669
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Anyway Fedor played yesterday on plo200 and above. Just dont understand why are not stars able to freeze the susp accounts during the investigation period?? I heard a lot of story how stars freezed accounts for nothing.. Now we have this and accounts keep playing.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:46 AM   #670
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Guys... Pokerstars will not do anything until they find strong evidence and stats are not enough for that and they stated it clearly in one of their emails.

Its like in any other country - people know that mafia doing some bad things BUT they are careful and they have lawyers so legally they a untouchable unless they do smth stupid and therefore there will be enough evidence to put them in jail... but then another mafia will step up and here we go again.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:23 AM   #671
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

I hope they do something about this soon or I have many media friends from most national newspapers who would call this a scoop!!
I know the editor of the mail on Sunday which is the best investigative journalism in the UK. Plus just about every top reporter in the UK from all newspapers plus mobile numbers and contact details should AMAYA decide to do nothing and compensate no one. I am sure they will sort this out as a multi billion dollar company does not want to be damaged over $3m of compensation claims and paying the rake back to the players who have lost. Give it a few days but if it's the same old "we can't prove it" then let the media and the gambling commission get the ball rolling once and for all. My wife claims she crushes the low stakes then moves up to $1/2 PLO and doom she loses it all in half an hour or less. So she's writing to stars as am I.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:24 AM   #672
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Kennington View Post
Guys... Pokerstars will not do anything until they find strong evidence and stats are not enough for that and they stated it clearly in one of their emails.

Its like in any other country - people know that mafia doing some bad things BUT they are careful and they have lawyers so legally they a untouchable unless they do smth stupid and therefore there will be enough evidence to put them in jail... but then another mafia will step up and here we go again.
I dont agree at all, why ive got banned from many sportsbetting sites even ive done nothig illegal?
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:38 AM   #673
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Dan, you should stake your wife properly for 1/2 or 2/5, sounds like she deserves a stake, its tough to play higher stakes with limited BR.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:45 AM   #674
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by Dandan160808 View Post
I hope they do something about this soon or I have many media friends from most national newspapers who would call this a scoop!!
Highlighted text is the trick I have for many cases and in this case that bluff-trick will not work.
I hope PokerStars do their work and find out truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
I dont agree at all, why ive got banned from many sportsbetting sites even ive done nothig illegal?
You are not "Mafia" you are just one person who they can ignore and you can't do anything rather than just complain and then eventually leave.
I'am not trying to be harsh to you, not at all, just telling the truth. One person is one weak drop from an ocean BUT to become stronger we have to unite together and form a huge powerful wave.
You = drop
"Mafia" = Wave
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:52 AM   #675
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Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

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Originally Posted by nwb123 View Post
Do you guys actually lose vs the bots? When I check the VsPlayer tab I am up a lot vs them. Maybe they're just too good vs weaker players or this could just be positive variance
Im pretty sure that is just a somekind of bug or something like that in hem(propably i have no skills to use it as meant), i have won against ~every opponent when quickly watched from hem. And im sure they are worse against fishes than legit regs, they dont table select as most for example. Im sure i have lost A LOT more for bots than any Legit reg.
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