Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

High Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 2/4 and above pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2015, 03:38 PM   #476
ouinosino
adept
 
ouinosino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 838
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

fml even plo is now infected with ****** bots..cant take this anymore and obv. no reaction from stars side on such huge news...wtf is going on?!
ouinosino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 03:57 PM   #477
WateryBoil
Pooh-Bah
 
WateryBoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: And mine are long and sharp my Lord
Posts: 5,719
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Stars is just pretending this doesnt exist, lack of community support. They wont even ****ing reply in email "support".

wow pasta dat hud
WateryBoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:10 PM   #478
Rant
old hand
 
Rant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,436
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Someone needs to automate the process of going through a DB and flagging suspect accounts. It isn't too hard.

Should also summarize win rates when the suspect accounts are at the same table vs. not.
Rant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:13 PM   #479
nutgrabber
enthusiast
 
nutgrabber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 49
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Well done to the guys involved in exposing this travesty, it seems that far too often the PLO community has been all too willing to deny the possibility of bots in our games, I think this is a big wake up call for us all.

Here's to hoping stars come in with the banhammer swinging.
nutgrabber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:13 PM   #480
bicyclekick
luckbox
 
bicyclekick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: waiting to ski
Posts: 7,063
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Great research. Thanks for looking out for the community.
bicyclekick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:42 PM   #481
ArtyMcFly
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArtyMcFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Enchantment Under the Sea
Posts: 13,251
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
Made an alias of all the bots. They won 7200 from me running 31 buyins over EV vs me. Thank god I got 36 dollar refund.
Christ on a ****ing bike. Is Stars taking the piss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmont22 View Post
good to see i was playing them 3 handed...i like how they donk off vs each other...feeling really stupid now

my sample isnt huge but after me, the bot alias most common opponents are each other
It's too sick for words.
ArtyMcFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:47 PM   #482
kaby
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: captain of team fold
Posts: 6,230
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelnel View Post
not sure about the obvious reasons, but pretty much yes. Can you give cliffs on obvious reasons?

$$$$ as loctus said

and as long as bots are not too good they are the ideal customer for pokerstars. stars wants to turn (fish) deposits into as much rake as possible, tons of barely winning regulars for every fish is the best way to do that (i guess the ideal would be 5 barely losing regs and everything going to the rake but we). doesn't matter if they are human or not, as long as it doesn't stop fish from depositing

from a business point of view it's not as obvious stars should stop bots as some itt seems to think. where are the regs going to go really? all other sites are worse. from a business point of view it seems like stars should just do just as much vs bots as is needed to not have some fish stop depositing. apart from that they shouldn't really care if the low-winrate regular is human or not, the more close-to-breakeven players the better
kaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:55 PM   #483
dankness3
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,441
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

fedor and sergeaxx playing now
dankness3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 04:56 PM   #484
halcyon229
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: sitting on the sideline
Posts: 278
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
trying to keep bots in balance is just too late now, this only proves that more they are bots. just like fedor jumped to zoom now.

seregaxx have never before asked me to play HU.

people behind this bot thing are running out of ammo.

Im pretty sure they are very interested in keeping the accounts open. FedorZaysev should be SNE for sure and seregaxx could also be SNE with the amount of hands he has played since 2014.
halcyon229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:04 PM   #485
Pastafiore
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 141
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

i dont fully agree for that, for example previous Network(IGT/b2b/antraction) where i played many years, games died and Network was driven down because bumhunting, and thats why worst regs quited, fishes lost more/hand than earlier, JUST LIKE NOW IS HAPPENING IN POKERSTARS.

that's not 100% same situation, but doing good enough for a sample. if those bots does continue, games will be more and more dry in future. im pretty sure pokerstars does lose in longrun instead of winning By letting bots play there, who are winning as much as best regs, and there is not lot of that good regs.

better, and better, and better regs are quitting games in future if bots keep playing.
Pastafiore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:05 PM   #486
halcyon229
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: sitting on the sideline
Posts: 278
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaby View Post
$$$$ as loctus said

and as long as bots are not too good they are the ideal customer for pokerstars. stars wants to turn (fish) deposits into as much rake as possible, tons of barely winning regulars for every fish is the best way to do that (i guess the ideal would be 5 barely losing regs and everything going to the rake but we). doesn't matter if they are human or not, as long as it doesn't stop fish from depositing

from a business point of view it's not as obvious stars should stop bots as some itt seems to think. where are the regs going to go really? all other sites are worse. from a business point of view it seems like stars should just do just as much vs bots as is needed to not have some fish stop depositing. apart from that they shouldn't really care if the low-winrate regular is human or not, the more close-to-breakeven players the better
I agree with your general reasoning in this post. However you seem to miss that the suspected accounts are basically the biggest winners at certain stakes. Look at the screenshot posted by ChicagoJoey. The 5 biggest winners are all part of the bot ring and have winrates that are far from break-even. Human winrates seem to be lower (reasons for this were pointed out earlier in the thread... no getting tired, no tilt (except some artificial "tilt" to appear more human), possible holecard sharing...

Nevertheless I agree that stars probably hasnt cracked down hard on the bots for financial reasons. If all of the suspected accounts turn out to be bots basically a third of the PLO100/200 volume is being played by bots.
(everyone who plays this stakes knows that FedorZaysev, seregaxx and Emperor and the other bots put in a ton of volume)
The amount of PLO tables running without these "guys" ( ) would be much lower.
halcyon229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:05 PM   #487
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by halcyon229 View Post
Im pretty sure they are very interested in keeping the accounts open.
I'm sure this couldn't be further from the truth, there would be serious regulatory implications if this was the case. I'm thinking specifically of the UK but surely other countries too.

Let's stop with the conspiracy theories please, Stars obv require a higher burden of proof than we do and these things take time. Of course their detection methods and resources can surely be significantly improved (pasta reported them last year, wtf?!) and it's a huge deal, but they're on the same side as us here.
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:06 PM   #488
Dandan160808
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 135
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Sergeaxx is playing right now with sizeable wins as of now!! Not seen fedor so far so one of the most suspicious accounts is still playing & fedor is playing $2/4 PLO now?

So what the hell is happening to these alleged bots? Are they allowed to rinse a bit more from us before getting the boot? Or are they deemed legit Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them?
Dandan160808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:09 PM   #489
halcyon229
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: sitting on the sideline
Posts: 278
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
I'm sure this couldn't be further from the truth, there would be serious regulatory implications if this was the case. I'm thinking specifically of the UK but surely other countries too.

Let's stop with the conspiracy theories please, Stars obv require a higher burden of proof than we do and these things take time. Of course their detection methods and resources can surely be significantly improved (pasta reported them last year, wtf?!) and it's a huge deal, but they're on the same side as us here.
sorry shimmy, I think you misunderstood my point here.
I was talking about the operators of the accounts seregaxx and FedorZaysev and not the stars security department.

I assume that both are SNE and that means a ton of rakeback income (we are for sure talking about 6-digits here). They now fear losing the accounts and therefore start doing the things Pastafiore noticed:
-Fedor suddenly switching to zoom
-seregaxx chatting and asking for HU
...
halcyon229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:10 PM   #490
Pastafiore
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 141
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

y, when i thnk this more far, pokerstars does LOSE more instead of winning By letting those bots play even if they all play SNE.
Pastafiore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:12 PM   #491
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

^^ok, i see what you mean, but my point stands in relation to some other posts above
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:26 PM   #492
TopPair2Pair
veteran
 
TopPair2Pair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 3,341
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
I'm sure this couldn't be further from the truth, there would be serious regulatory implications if this was the case. I'm thinking specifically of the UK but surely other countries too.
Completely disagree Shimmy.
- What are these regulatory implications?
- How long has online poker been around?
- How many times has a poker room been fined, officially warned, licences revoked for malpractice since 1999? By any of these so called gaming commissions?

I agree with your point regarding the consequences in the UK - IF the right people do in fact get actual sight of these problems. However, it seems like the relevant departments within the governing bodies are umm... not that great at governing - and do not seem to have brought their Risk profile up to date with 2015.

Would love to hear something from Richas on this particular topic. Pm sent.
TopPair2Pair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:31 PM   #493
shimmy
adept
 
shimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London England innit.
Posts: 909
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopPair2Pair View Post
Completely disagree Shimmy.
- What are these regulatory implications?
- How long has online poker been around?
- How many times has a poker room been fined, officially warned, licences revoked for malpractice since 1999? By any of these so called gaming commissions?

I agree with your point regarding the consequences in the UK - IF the right people do in fact get actual sight of these problems. However, it seems like the relevant departments within the governing bodies are umm... not that great at governing - and do not seem to have brought their Risk profile up to date with 2015.

Would love to hear something from Richas on this particular topic. Pm sent.
Well, I'm not exactly an expert but as you know the UK regulations are relatively new, and IIRC from the discussions at the time there were clauses specifically relating to bots.

No idea what the consequences might be - fines? revoke of license? just my speculation here. they are new regulations so what has (not) happened historically is irrelevant, that's the point.

Best to wait for Richas to comment
shimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:37 PM   #494
TopPair2Pair
veteran
 
TopPair2Pair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 3,341
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Indeed, I don't think its quite a black or white situation as people are making out.

These things, like with the recession and mortgage lending in 2008, black friday (2011), black Wednesday (1992) usually highlight massive flawed processes within governing strategy and more importantly governing execution.

Who holds these gaming commissions accountable to effectively hold online poker sites accountable? and most importantly of all where is the transparency?
TopPair2Pair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 05:58 PM   #495
omnishakira
High Troller
 
omnishakira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BBV Alpha Male
Posts: 9,711
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

any reactions from pokerstars rep so far?

can stars sue them?

Last edited by omnishakira; 06-09-2015 at 06:06 PM.
omnishakira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 06:04 PM   #496
LiquidSw0rd
journeyman
 
LiquidSw0rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland.
Posts: 346
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Props to you Schwein, you are the John Connor of on-line poker.
LiquidSw0rd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 06:05 PM   #497
Dandan160808
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 135
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Pokerstars TOS means nothing if they cannot abide by THEIR OWN Rules!!

Ok so seat scripting allowed Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them
Semi automated bots allowed Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them
Bot collusion networks allowed
Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them
Huds and your opponents stats are allowed
Massive bot ring on PokerStars/Party and how to spot them
I think the game of poker online is now a technical software vs software bot war in the next 5 years of sites don't clean up their acts and at the least get rid of the bots.
Fedor and sergeaxx are still cleaning the $1/2 to $2/4 PLO tables although a lot of defiant sit outs are happening with Fedor speaking for the first time!! Heads up challenge with pastafiore just so fedor looks real and comes off bot mode for the day.

Poker licenses are granted in most countries as a game of skill and that is rapidly becoming a joke.

If poker is not regulated soon then more players will just sit out waiting for the bots to disappear and disappear they did when stars went down for a few days a couple of months back.

Can a pokerstars representative update us all on what is going on with all the names supplied by the OP and his good work with others combined data?
Dandan160808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 06:10 PM   #498
Dandan160808
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 135
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafiore View Post
i dont fully agree for that, for example previous Network(IGT/b2b/antraction) where i played many years, games died and Network was driven down because bumhunting, and thats why worst regs quited, fishes lost more/hand than earlier, JUST LIKE NOW IS HAPPENING IN POKERSTARS.



that's not 100% same situation, but doing good enough for a sample. if those bots does continue, games will be more and more dry in future. im pretty sure pokerstars does lose in longrun instead of winning By letting bots play there, who are winning as much as best regs, and there is not lot of that good regs.



better, and better, and better regs are quitting games in future if bots keep playing.

+1 and did you end up taking fedor up on his HU challenge? First time I've seen him speak. Best wishes to you for your good work and input to ban these bots.
Dandan160808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 06:10 PM   #499
omnishakira
High Troller
 
omnishakira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BBV Alpha Male
Posts: 9,711
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

this thread should be moved to internet poker imo
omnishakira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 06:15 PM   #500
Dandan160808
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 135
Re: Massive bot ring on PokerStars and how to spot them

We have a list of around 25-50 'alledged' bots out of millions of pokerstars customers averaging 150,000 players a day in traffic.

This small number and I'm sure it's higher than this but can't prove it are upsetting the other few million recs and pros so think they are playing another human only to find out it's an AI Bot gaining intelligence everyday they are allowed to play and basically steal our money.
Dandan160808 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive